T I E N

[Innagadadavida]

Me or them? I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I am not in a position to do so nor would I if I could.

It was in response to a comment VegettoEX made on the first page. Sorry for the confusion. It's fixed now.

[Rena Rune]

Me or them? I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I am not in a position to do so nor would I if I could.

It was in response to a comment VegettoEX made on the first page. Sorry for the confusion. It's fixed now.

Ahh my fault. Sorry.

[desirecampbell]

To sum up:

The word filter was put in place to automatically change some incorrect names to correct ones, not only because they are the correct names, but so there would be less confusion as to whom you were talking about.

If it's important in some case to actually use these incorrect names, the word filter is easily circumvented.

Some people find it offensive that they have these correct names 'forced' on them. I suspect this is simply an over-reaction because they were surprised that such changes happened in their post.


I propose that the word filter be updated, so that name changes from incorrect names like 'Tien' and 'Hercule' be replaced with the correct names, but coloured to show that they have been changed (I know I've made posts not knowing the word is filtered and been confused). Furthermore, I propose that the word filter should include more names; Fashsa, Kogu, and the like.

If I want to call Tenshinhan "Pink Supervisor" I'll goddamn call him Pink Supervisor.

But you'd simply be confusing people by using it. If you want to talk about how the name has been changed (or other name-specific topics), it's easy enough to circumvent the filter. Otherwise, you're simply talking about the character and the name is just "a different fecking name for something" then it shouldn't matter to you which is used.

I honestly don't see why anyone could be upset about this.

[Innagadadavida]

To sum up:

The word filter was put in place to automatically change some incorrect names to correct ones, not only because they are the correct names, but so there would be less confusion as to whom you were talking about.

If it's important in some case to actually use these incorrect names, the word filter is easily circumvented.

Some people find it offensive that they have these correct names 'forced' on them. I suspect this is simply an over-reaction because they were surprised that such changes happened in their post.


I propose that the word filter be updated, so that name changes from incorrect names like 'Tien' and 'Hercule' be replaced with the correct names, but coloured to show that they have been changed (I know I've made posts not knowing the word is filtered and been confused). Furthermore, I propose that the word filter should include more names; Fashsa, Kogu, and the like.

If I want to call Tenshinhan "Pink Supervisor" I'll goddamn call him Pink Supervisor.

But you'd simply be confusing people by using it. If you want to talk about how the name has been changed (or other name-specific topics), it's easy enough to circumvent the filter. Otherwise, you're simply talking about the character and the name is just "a different fecking name for something" then it shouldn't matter to you which is used.

I honestly don't see why anyone could be upset about this.

You are completely missing the point. Nobody is upset about the word filter. People are upset at closed minded elietists. There was even one poster who PREFERRED the word filter who pointed that out on this very thread.

When I say Tien, are you confused as to who I am talking about?

Furthermore, Tien is the correct name by the Funimation Dub standpoint. So when you say Tenshinhan is the *correct* name, what you mean to say is that it is the *original* name.

And that proposal is ludicrous. You just want people who call characters by names different that what you call them to look stupid. When somebody has a post with a big RED word on it, it calls attention to their "mistake" (that word is being used very loosely here).

And you can say that the user can go back and edit the correction out but that is forcing an opinion on other people to an even higher degree that what is already being done on this forum in the first place.

[VegettoEX]

The word filter was put in place to automatically change some incorrect names to correct ones, not only because they are the correct names, but so there would be less confusion as to whom you were talking about.

Yeah, that basically sums up my non-smirking reason for it. I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations, not only online... but in-person at conventions... with people asking me questions about characters, and I don't even have a clue who they're asking me about.

Some people find it offensive that they have these correct names 'forced' on them. I suspect this is simply an over-reaction because they were surprised that such changes happened in their post.

That's basically how I'm reading into it, as well. It's only natural to challenge the authority (not that there's anything inherently wrong with that) when something you do or write is changed without prior knowledge that this would happen. Whether they're genuinely angry about it (I also mirror the viewpoint that it's impossible to understand why it's something to be angry about) or simply looking for something to pop in and "whine" about, I neither know nor care so long as it produces conversation and winds up with a happy compromise in the end.

(At this point, I reiterate my suggestion for the forum rules, adding in something along the lines of, "Baseless and inconsistent naming schemes may be automatically adjusted.").

I propose that the word filter be updated, so that name changes from incorrect names like 'Tien' and 'Hercule' be replaced with the correct names, but coloured to show that they have been changed (I know I've made posts not knowing the word is filtered and been confused). Furthermore, I propose that the word filter should include more names; Fashsa, Kogu, and the like.

I'd be down with something like that. Is it something I could easily do with the forum as-is, or would anyone be willing to do the extra coding if necessary? I've been wanting to do some forum upgrades (as soon as I can actually get a hold of Josh), so this could be something down the pipeline.

If I want to call Tenshinhan "Pink Supervisor" I'll goddamn call him Pink Supervisor.

But you'd simply be confusing people by using it. If you want to talk about how the name has been changed (or other name-specific topics), it's easy enough to circumvent the filter. Otherwise, you're simply talking about the character and the name is just "a different fecking name for something" then it shouldn't matter to you which is used.

Yeah, that just seems like a stomping-my-feet hissy-fit type of reaction. I realize it's entirely theoretical and not likely to actually happen, but still...

By the way, if Tenshinhan, why not Kururin, Buruma, etc.? You're removin a letter there, just like Tenshinhan adds one. Alternative romanisation at work.

To be honest, I just haven't thought of them all, nor would I ever be able to on my own. Those are good suggestions, though buruma is at least the standard romanization of ブルマ.

I know there are a lot of other great suggestions and remarks being made out there, and I just don't have the time to get back to all of them. Don't for a second think that just because I don't necessarily immediately agree with you that I won't change something down the road. I know a couple of you (a very vocal minority) are feeling the need to pop up and strongly express disagreement and dissatisfaction. That's good. I'm not being passive-aggressive, I'm not throwing the peons at you, and I'm not setting out to make an example of anyone. I'm actively listening, and honestly considering all things being said. I've knocked heads with plenty of people before (hey, Olivier Hague!) and I think Daizenshuu EX as an entire entity has and will become a better place for it.

If you're angry, that's fine. Just don't be rude because of it and think I'm trying to be rude back at you. I'm not.

For the record, Julian has "forced" several naming schemes on me for the site's style guide that I don't necessarily agree with . I never type "Saiyan"...

[Innagadadavida]

I do find it a little odd though that every time somebody suggests Tien or whatever be removed you ignore it or say "well it's my forum if you don't like it go somewhere else." But when somebody suggests you add more words to the filter, you say "hey that's a great idea."

And you were being passive aggressive.

(2) If you are so absolutely opposed to using the character's common name throughout the entire world with the exception of one company's television dubbing for one particular market, and yet STILL wish to post on this forum using that spelling... do so by circumventing the word filter.

Here's an idea.

Would some kind of additional statement in the rules be sufficient? Something (after "However, emphasis will be placed...") along the lines of:

"Certain minor inconsistent and baseless naming conventions may be automatically adjusted to reflect this global scope."

Also, you're not going to get anywhere only responding to the people you agree with, dude.

[Rena Rune]

Some people find it offensive that they have these correct names 'forced' on them. I suspect this is simply an over-reaction because they were surprised that such changes happened in their post.

Really? Wow. I find it offensive because I take offense at illogical rulings and find it overall childish. Why can you not understand this?

But you'd simply be confusing people by using it.

And the Tenshinhan overwrite won't confuse people? Come on. Most of them won't know how to circumvent the filter either, and they'll become aggrivated that they should have to.

then it shouldn't matter to you which is used.

That's like saying banning interracial marriage shouldn't matter to a white guy that dates mostly white girls because he probably won't marry a black person. Come on. Of course it matters.

I honestly don't see why anyone could be upset about this.

Any freethinker should be upset by this. This kind of thing is too common online nowadays, you leave one place for having silly administration only to find another.

Yeah, that basically sums up my non-smirking reason for it. I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations, not only online... but in-person at conventions... with people asking me questions about characters, and I don't even have a clue who they're asking me about.

How is automatically editting their post going to help that? Argh. If they don't know what a Tenshinhan is they'll only be MORE confused. Why can't you simply educate people instead of forcing your views on them?

Whether they're genuinely angry about it (I also mirror the viewpoint that it's impossible to understand why it's something to be angry about)

Just because you don't understand the opposing viewpoint, does not make it
invalid. You should make an attempt to understand it rather than dismiss it.

It makes people angry because it's weeaboo elitism. It's this kind of behaviour that makes it embarassing to be an anime fan.

If you're angry, that's fine. Just don't be rude because of it and think I'm trying to be rude back at you. I'm not.

I'll admit you are a lot less passive aggressive than some admins I've known, but you're still being elitist and that's extremely rude in of itself.

I do find it a little odd though that every time somebody suggests Tien or whatever be removed you ignore it or say "well it's my forum if you don't like it go somewhere else." But when somebody suggests you add more words to the filter, you say "hey that's a great idea."

Because it's something he agrees with of course. When you're an admin it seems you don't have to ever rethink your opinion, or reach a compromise.

[VegettoEX]

I do find it a little odd though that every time somebody suggests Tien or whatever be removed you ignore it or say "well it's my forum if you don't like it go somewhere else." But when somebody suggests you add more words to the filter, you say "hey that's a great idea."

Right now, I'm not convinced removing "Tien" is something I want to do or benefits the overall aim/goal/mission of Daizenshuu EX.

Adding "Fasha"...? Well, that does.

And you were being passive aggressive.

Sorry if it's coming across that way. I guess my message changes in tone depending on the status of the conversation?

Also, you're not going to get anywhere only responding to the people you agree with, dude.

I'm not only responding to you, but I directly quoted and responded to Rena Rude right above your post. I guess the next step would be to say that I'm overwhelmingly responding to quotes that would "agree" with me, but then that would in turn get a response saying, well, the overwhelming majority appear to be agreeing... and then the conversation just devolves from there .

Furthermore, Tien is the correct name by the Funimation Dub standpoint. So when you say Tenshinhan is the *correct* name, what you mean to say is that it is the *original* name.

This particular name seems to be the one that people are genuinely "angry" about. What about "Hercule"...? Is anyone upset about that one?

For these particular names, no matter what FUNimation uses and how important people feel FUNimation is and how large their market is, they have direction contradictions in their own market, by themselves and by their competitors.

Something I've been wanting to type up for a while was FUNimation's interesting spelling choice of "Frieza" due to the facts that:

- Their original ~1996/7 run of "Super Battle Collection" figures with Bandai for the Canadian and American markets spelled it as "Freeza"
- The closed captioning for their original edited/dubbed episodes prior to the name being spelled in a title card was spelled as "Freeza"
- Viz went with the spelling of "Freeza" from the beginning and stuck with it, being produced in the same market as FUNimation
- Steve Simmons' spelling of "Freeza" appears in FUNimation's subtitle track for their own DVDs

Obviously there's not as much to go on with Tenshinhan's name other than Viz's release of the manga (which itself we can only hold with any regard up until the point where people like Jason Thompson left and it began its run in the monthly "Shonen Jump" publication), and the fact that they decided to add in the "Shinhan" surname (acknowledging the original name), but the overall message is the same.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

I'm not only responding to you, but I directly quoted and responded to Rena Rude right above your post. I guess the next step would be to say that I'm overwhelmingly responding to quotes that would "agree" with me, but then that would in turn get a response saying, well, the overwhelming majority appear to be agreeing... and then the conversation just devolves from there .

I agree with the word filter, I agree with your points. But I think I would say that at a certain point(that is to say, this point) in the conversation, you stopped replying to counterpoints. Actual counterpoints, mind you, not my mock ones..

Of course, it's nice that you came in and decided to post at all, but I'm not sure I can agree with the argument that you haven't omitted negative quotes in your last large post on the matter. It's probably better to respond to the counterpoints and the disagreements rather than the agreements, and in my mind they should probably take priority to avoid stagnation of discussion.

[Rena Rune]

I'm not only responding to you, but I directly quoted and responded to Rena Rude right above your post.

Oh wow that was incredibly mature.

Right now, I'm not convinced removing "Tien" is something I want to do or benefits the overall aim/goal/mission of Daizenshuu EX.

I think you mangled this because I agree. I'm not sure how removing the word "Tien" benefits the forum in any shape or form. It's obviously causing a lot of upset - and the payoff is only weakly speculative.

[VegettoEX]

I'm not only responding to you, but I directly quoted and responded to Rena Rude right above your post.

Oh wow that was incredibly mature.

Whoops! Just noticed I spelled your name wrong!

I didn't copy-and-paste, and I guess I had FF7 and the Turks on the mind . I'm shocked I didn't flat out write "Reno Rude". I didn't even notice until I was responding to this and was typing out how I had absolutely no idea how or why you were angry...

It makes people angry because it's weeaboo elitism. It's this kind of behaviour that makes it embarassing to be an anime fan.

I've actually asked about this "weeaboo" word before, because I didn't quite understand it. From what I was told, it has something to do with "4chan" (which I also have little familiarity with).

To our credit, we're not forcing torankusu and seru spellings! ^_~

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

I've actually asked about this "weeaboo" word before, because I didn't quite understand it. From what I was told, it has something to do with "4chan" (which I also have little familiarity with).

To our credit, we're not forcing torankusu and seru spellings! ^_~

Let me quote the incredibly useful, yet abrasively offensive and hostile, "Encyclopedia Dramatica":

"The Wapanese (also called "Japanophiles" or "Weeaboo") are, much like Wiggers, painfully clueless honkies trying to fill their cultural void by pretending not to be white -- in this case, by humping the giant Godzilla leg of the Land of the Rising Shit until assimilated into its culture, as if being Azn[Kamikaze note: Asian] is some kind of acquired communicable disease. So badly do they wish this, in fact, that they are willing to dedicate entire afternoons to memorizing up to five common phrases in Japanese, later misusing them at the mall or furry conventions. The main point of doing this is so that their grief of ronreyness and rejection from the local teething rich kiddies isn't noticed when they're hanging around retarded fucknuts.[Kamikaze note: That is not a nice word]

Most Wapanese think that Japan is a place where the trees are made of Pocky, cities are made of platinum PS3s and Nintendo Wiis, and the girls and Bishojos [okay, I'm snipping this bit]. Wapanese frequently go to sushi bars or the Panda Express in the food court (despite the fact that it's Chinese foodz), as well as Sanrio stores on a weekly basis. They are the bane of American youth. "

Basically, it's supposed to mean white people acting like Japanese people, or something to that effect. I assume "weeaboo elitism" would be a point of saying that a person would have to think quite highly of themselves and their own viewpoint if they found it necessary to force one Japanese-derived spelling over another spelling.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, detractors.

[Rena Rune]

Elitist Weeaboo example:

Megaman fans who constantly correct you for saying "Maverick" instead of "Irregular", even though Maverick sounds cooler.

Also I hate ED and it's hateful attitude that it pretends is "parody"(what exactly is posting personal details of some autistic kid a parody of, being an even bigger retard?) but I thought the word applied here.

It originally came from when moot(the guy who runs 4chan) filtered the word "wapanese" to "weeaboo", a phrase used in a Perry Bible Fellowship comic. Making it doubly relevant!

[Adamant]

The fact is most western DB fans, the people in our "world", will know him as Tien.

No. There's only three countries in the world where that name is more commonly used that "Tenshinhan", and they're all under the influence of a certain non-accurate dub of the anime series. "Western" does not mean "The USA".

Megaman fans who constantly correct you for saying "Maverick" instead of "Irregular", even though Maverick sounds cooler.

But "Repliroid" sounds cooler than "Reploid", though.

[Rena Rune]

The fact is most western DB fans, the people in our "world", will know him as Tien.

No. There's only three countries in the world where that name is more commonly used that "Tenshinhan", and they're all under the influence of a certain non-accurate dub of the anime series. "Western" does not mean "The USA".

Megaman fans who constantly correct you for saying "Maverick" instead of "Irregular", even though Maverick sounds cooler.

But "Repliroid" sounds cooler than "Reploid", though.

I'm not American. I imagine all the English speaking territories have gotten "our" DBZ dub. And as I said, most people in your "World", your culture, will known him as Tien, so it's relevant. It's pointless trying to entirely remove yourself.

[Adamant]

I'm not american. I imagine all the english speaking territories have gotten "our" DBZ dub.

Yeah, but primarily English-speaking territories aren't as numerous as you may think, and pretty much everywhere else, he's called Tenshinhan.

And as I said, most people in your "World", your culture, will known him as Tenshinhan.

Yep

[Kid Trunks]

Yeah, but primarily English-speaking territories aren't as numerous as you may think, and pretty much everywhere else, he's called Tenshinhan

But this is a primarily English-speaking forum

[caejones]

Yeah, but primarily English-speaking territories aren't as numerous as you may think, and pretty much everywhere else, he's called Tenshinhan

But this is a primarily English-speaking forum

What percentage of the posters here are from non-primarily English areas, I wonder...
And how many people come here and post in a language that is not their primary native language?
Well, then I've seen interesting comments from Rocketman and Neptune with regards to names and the like... Correct me if I'm wrong, but both are native English speakers, right?
Nah. That's all I'll say.

[Rena Rune]

This is getting silly now. You need to some extent judge along your own culture.

[VegettoEX]

This is getting silly now. You need to some extent judge along your own culture.

But... why?

As you can read along with in this forum thread (as well as anecdotal evidence I have from looking at web stats, getting e-mails to the website and podcast, receiving donations from people, etc... and note that I gave up in that thread after a while with regards to updating the first post, so you'll unfortunately have to read along with it)... we have a huge foreign readership.

Sure, I'm in North America, but I'm not specifically catering to North America. Just like the rules say (and has already been quoted):

While the vast majority of members will be familiar with and fans primarily of the original Japanese version, we must understand that fans stem from all over the world and from all types of initiations. However, emphasis will be placed on the original Japanese version, as it is the single "global" version that can be enjoyed by all.

So what is "our culture"...? McDonald's? I don't really understand. You've made a lot of fantastic points, but the only one I'm seeing any true fallback on so far is simply that FUNimation is really big to you and you're in a place where FUNimation releases stuff and therefore we should say and ultimately not change "Tien".

Like I said before, though, what about all the other name changes? I'm not hearing anything about "Hercule" and "Frieza". If it's because you didn't know about them and their auto-corrections on the forum, well, now you know!