Nothing to gain from DBE?

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:22 pm

Kunzait_83, good post.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:20 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Bussani et all: not buying a product or service is the way of discouraging similar products/services from being made available. Crap that's made for profit will keep being made if i's profitable.

I understand this concept. It's a bit different for a movie though; how can you judge it if you haven't seen it?

Secondly, downloading a theatre-cam of a film is not actually illegal in most countries. And the countries where such laws would prohibit it have little legal weight.

Whaaat? How does that work? Honestly, I'm not being sarcastic.

I think it would be frowned upon where I live. Would I get caught and punished? Probably not. It still doesn't sound right to me though.

Thirdly, yes there is possible "damage" that DBE could do to Dagon Ball as a whole. Remember how Dragon Ball is the go-to "crappy childish anime"? That was because of the Funimation dub being, in a word, terrible. Evolution has absolutely no chance of being any better.

Okay, that's a fair point. I was in a state of mind of not caring what misinformed people think about the show, and anyone who automatically associates the movie with the manga/series before seeing it isn't worth worrying about. But I see your point, I guess it...well, I doubt the movie flopping would encourage Funi to change their ways either come to think of it. At most there will just be more misinformed idiots and I don't see their opinion as worth a damn.

I don't feel like it hurts the fandom unless you let these people get to you.

In short, I'm not stopping anyone from boycotting the movie. But I don't like being looked down on because I'm choosing to see it the good ol' fashion way.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:27 pm

Post by **Herms** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:09 pm

Hora~ay, Kunzait's back!

...I, uh, don't have any other comment...

Though maybe Kunzait's return counts as something we gained from DragonBall Evolution?

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:27 pm

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:00 pm

Bussani wrote:I understand this concept. It's a bit different for a movie though; how can you judge it if you haven't seen it?

That's why others have been advocating watching a "cam" of it.

Bussani wrote:Whaaat? How does that work? Honestly, I'm not being sarcastic.

Here in Canada we have specific laws legalizing sharing music, but everything else is just kind of 'unspecified', and as such legal. The RCMP have gone on record as saying that they are not concerned with personal file-sharing and will not be investigated or prosecuted.

Bussani wrote:I think it would be frowned upon where I live. Would I get caught and punished? Probably not. It still doesn't sound right to me though.

You may be in the minority. According to a new study only about 30% of people believe there's anything wrong with file sharing, and only 3% believe it to be a criminal offence.

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:04 pm

I like having things to look forward to. I like discussing what it may or may not have or do. I especially like it when it's of something that I already like. Will it be better than what I've already experienced or will it be worse? Will it totally blow away everything that has come before, or will it just totally blow?

Then there's the interest in the original that comes along with something new that is based off of it. It may involve re-releasing what has come before or at the very least, making more people aware of it. Which will only increase the amount of people I have to discuss it with.

The one thing that it will not do is remove the original or stop it from being intertained by it. The most discomfort that you may encounter would be coming across those new to the franchise that will prefer the newer material to older one. (Even though this point has been brought up many times before, I beleive that every so often people need to be reminded of it.)

Nothing every needs something new to be added to it. But I feel that it does require something to keep it relevant. Whether it's a re-re-release in it's original format (hopefully with some sort of high profile coverage) or something created for a different medium.

If nothing happens with the franchise, after sometime it will be forgotten. Those who created it will move on to other projects or retire. The fans of the series will get older and discover other things to hold their attention (they will still remember but as time moves something else will bound to take it spot in their hearts).

Even though the fans will try to spread the word, it becomes one of many things vying for attention. If you don't beleive this, try remembering some of the things you were highly into from half your life ago. How much of them do you think about or talk with people about even semi-regularly?

Heck, if there were no Dragonball games released in the last eight years and if FUNi had not done the season sets, I may not even still have an interest in the series and definitely would not have found this community to discuss it on. It would just have been that cool show on Toonami that I watched.

Without the new games, music, manga & anime re-releases, action figures & figurines, movies, specials, calendars and whatnot, what wuld we really have to discuss besides timelines, powerlevels, Brolli's true power, character vs character, the most powerful Buu, or whatever it is we discuss when there is no new news.

I will gladly get excited with anything that Toriyama, Toei, Shueisha, Twentiest Century FOX, Weekly Shonen Jump, Dimps, Spike, Crafts & Meister, or whoever wants to make new stuff releases. Whether it's good, bad, or mediocre.

(Also, I was totally amazed with 90s animated series. When Disney was on the ball they put out some of the best stuff, esp. Gargoyles. I was totally hooked to The Disney Afternoon for years and years. Batman, Spiderman, and Xmen were some of the coolest stuff out there. Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, and Pinky and The Brain were hilarious. These are just a few of awesome stuff from the 90s. I don't even want to start on 80s stuff like The Smurfs, MASK, and Tranformers.

I don't mind other peoples opinions, especially when they can give hem in a well thought out matter. But don't go pissing on other peoples cherished child-hood memories just because you beleive that you found something better. We get that you really didn't like them for whatever reason, but your words and tone come off as if there was nothing good about and those who derived any sort of enjoyment from then are completely retarded and idiotic for feeling that way, Kunzait.)

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:33 pm

Oh boy, welcome back Kunzait! I'm really glad to see you posting again.

(Yeah sorry this post is unrelated.)

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:56 pm

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:51 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Many complain about Funimation marketing Dragonball Z as this super hardcore action series. Well if they had not all the individuals, I grew up with that are fans of Dragonball Z would not have gravitated towards it otherwise. I grew up watching Thundercats, He-Man and reading X-Men and Avenger comics etc. I am just saying that over time all things need fresh air breathed into it if the franchise is going to remain relevant to those that come after the initial group of fans.
With all due respect, I too was a kid during the time of cartoons like Thundercats and He-Man etc. and had watched them a lot during my early childhood. And truthfully? The only thing that getting into anime (and the original Japanese version of Dragon Ball by extension) at as early an age as I did led me to realize was just how much almost all those cartoons completely sucked ass. I never wanted anything to do with them ever again, and I was only fucking 7 years old at the time.

Well good for you and your 7-year old ability to determine what cartoons in your opinion “sucked ass”, but that is your opinion. I was expressing my opinion as well concerning cartoons that I cherished as a child and did not believe “sucked ass”. Perhaps one day I can be as enlightened as you are.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:58 pm

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:16 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:But I honestly didn't mean that as some kinda insult. I was just expressing MY opinion from MY perspective. I wasn't attempting to somehow "invalidate" what you like or dislike. Just because I think certain types of cartoons or whatever suck doesn't mean I think YOU are somehow dumb for liking them. You as a person do not factor into it. It has nothing to do with YOU as a person at all; it's just a discussion about simple opinions on random crap, and random crap alone.

What reason would I have for wanting to insult you anyway? Cause y'know, even though we dissagree and have drastically differing views on a whole ton of stuff, I actually DO really like you a lot Prof, and I often look forward to reading your posts quite a bit.

*sigh*

Never mind. I'm really sorry. I probably just should've worded the whole thing better in the first place.

Well, I can appreciate your opinion on the matter. And I can understand where your coming. I didn't want to make it seem as if I were putting words in your mouth, but the words coming out of it were so strong that, as someone who truly loved most of those cartoons that "sucked ass", it could be read as an insult. The thing that saves it is that fact that you can articulately express why you did not like what you did not like what you did not like. This at the very least gains you my upmost respect.

The problem is, not everyone would see it like this. and will most likely take offense. And it's only natural to get the response: You diss what I like, so I don't like you. I'm not saying to keep it to yourself, but maybe a better choice of words or not so much unbridled bashing.

But, hey, I like reading well thought out opinions of things that I'm interested in. even when it's the total oposite of how I feel about the situation. Keep it up, you were definitely missed for the past four and a half months.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:25 am

Anonymous Friend wrote:You diss what I like, so I don't like you. I'm not saying to keep it to yourself, but maybe a better choice of words or not so much unbridled bashing.

Eh, if that's how he fells about it, I don't see why he should sugarcoat it to spare everybody's feelings. I enjoy a lot of stuff the guy thinks suck ass, but hey, he's still a pretty alright fellow. Somehow.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:25 pm

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:25 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
Anonymous Friend wrote:You diss what I like, so I don't like you. I'm not saying to keep it to yourself, but maybe a better choice of words or not so much unbridled bashing.
Eh, if that's how he fells about it, I don't see why he should sugarcoat it to spare everybody's feelings. I enjoy a lot of stuff the guy thinks suck ass, but hey, he's still a pretty alright fellow. Somehow.

It not about sugarcoating anything, the 7-year old comment came across as if the was saying that he had some type of special insight that others lacked which gave him greater ability to determine what is meaningful or of quality. If he does not like the cartoons so be it, the majority of the things that I like a large number of people hear dislike it and they let me know that often, so that is nothing new. I do not dislike Kunzait_83 actually; I was going to commend him for his GT comment earlier. However, right before I was about to do that I saw the post in which he made the recent remarks. Running into people that has very strong opinions is nothing new I encounter that constantly outside of Daizex in my field of study.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:04 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:With all due respect, I too was a kid during the time of cartoons like Thundercats and He-Man etc. and had watched them a lot during my early childhood. And truthfully? The only thing that getting into anime (and the original Japanese version of Dragon Ball by extension) at as early an age as I did led me to realize was just how much almost all those cartoons completely sucked ass. I never wanted anything to do with them ever again, and I was only fucking 7 years old at the time.

Whoa whoa whoa. Ease up on Thundercats and the Masters.

EDIT: I didn't read the shit-storm after. Unlike the others, I'm not actually butt-hurt by your comments. Just wanted to clarify.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:23 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Anonymous Friend wrote:Nothing every needs something new to be added to it. But I feel that it does require something to keep it relevant. Whether it's a re-re-release in it's original format (hopefully with some sort of high profile coverage) or something created for a different medium.

If nothing happens with the franchise, after sometime it will be forgotten. Those who created it will move on to other projects or retire. The fans of the series will get older and discover other things to hold their attention (they will still remember but as time moves something else will bound to take it spot in their hearts).
*MASSIVELY EPIC WALL OF TEXT!*

Man, I missed that.

Welcome back, Kunzait.

And I think it's wonderfully ironic that the man who can spawn a wall of text in every post(that is always different and interesting to read) was once medically diagnosed with ADD.

Anyway, he makes a good point. I haven't really read into this thread all that much, but here's what it comes down to for me:

No one should be getting their sandals in a knot about this movie "ruining" Dragonball. I personally don't think that, with all the popularity momentum it's gained over the years, a small bump like DBE on the road isn't going to slow down the Dragonball train.

And, besides, even if this movie does drive away MANY, MANY fansway more than 9000 we should care a single bit about that because WE'RE still all here and WE will still all be fans, no matter what!

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:37 pm

Big Momma wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Anonymous Friend wrote:Nothing every needs something new to be added to it. But I feel that it does require something to keep it relevant. Whether it's a re-re-release in it's original format (hopefully with some sort of high profile coverage) or something created for a different medium.

If nothing happens with the franchise, after sometime it will be forgotten. Those who created it will move on to other projects or retire. The fans of the series will get older and discover other things to hold their attention (they will still remember but as time moves something else will bound to take it spot in their hearts).
*MASSIVELY EPIC WALL OF TEXT!*
Man, I missed that.

Welcome back, Kunzait. And I think it's wonderfully ironic that the man who can spawn a wall of text in every post(that is always different and interesting to read) was once medically diagnosed with ADD.

Anyway, he makes a good point. I haven't really read into this thread all that much, but here's what it comes down to for me:

No one should be getting their sandals in a knot about this movie "ruining" Dragonball. I personally don't think that, with all the popularity momentum it's gained over the years, a small bump like DBE on the road isn't going to slow down the Dragonball train.

And, besides, even if this movie does drive away MANY, MANY fansway more than 9000 we should care a single bit about that because WE'RE still all here and WE will still all be fans, no matter what!

I guess what desirecampbell might have been saying is something like if the movie had been good and brought in new fans, they would buy more DB merchandise, Toei would get money and might continue to make us Dragon Ball and other stuff. By being bad, the movie is taking up space that could be used by that theoretical good movie and thus driving away potential new fans.

I don't think any of us paying to see the movie is going to make a difference in that though. We can't stop the movie existing by withholding our money. The most we could do is somehow make sure the movie fails so no sequel will be made, but hope someone else makes a new, better movie in it's place? Whereas if it succeeds and they do make an equally bad sequel, we're in the same boat we're in now.

So yeah. Unless I'm misinterpreting how things work (which I may be, so feel free to tell me so) I can't imagine things changing much.

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:28 pm

Bussani wrote:I guess what desirecampbell might have been saying is something like if the movie had been good and brought in new fans, they would buy more DB merchandise, Toei would get money and might continue to make us Dragon Ball and other stuff. By being bad, the movie is taking up space that could be used by that theoretical good movie and thus driving away potential new fans.

I don't think any of us paying to see the movie is going to make a difference in that though. We can't stop the movie existing by withholding our money. The most we could do is somehow make sure the movie fails so no sequel will be made, but hope someone else makes a new, better movie in it's place? Whereas if it succeeds and they do make an equally bad sequel, we're in the same boat we're in now.

So yeah. Unless I'm misinterpreting how things work (which I may be, so feel free to tell me so) I can't imagine things changing much.

I don't think that going to or not going to see the movie should be a matter of supporting or not supporting the movie. It should be solely based on whether or not you want to see an American movie based on Dragon Ball. If there has been any series where the producers decided to give a movie another chance just on whether or not the fans "supported" it.

There's two ways that they can see it: The movie makes a decent amount of money and sequels get a full greenlight or it does poorly in the box office and we don't hear any serious talks of a new movie, or atleast not for quite some time.

I would prefer that they make some money and keep trying. To continue on a previous metaphor: Continue to step up to the plate and swing for the fences. Bad movies get made all the time. Bad television shows and episodes get aired all of the time. But they keep on trying anyway. A successful Dragon Ball movie is possible. They may just need a few tries to get it right.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:23 pm

Bussani wrote:I guess what desirecampbell might have been saying is something like if the movie had been good and brought in new fans, they would buy more DB merchandise, Toei would get money and might continue to make us Dragon Ball and other stuff. By being bad, the movie is taking up space that could be used by that theoretical good movie and thus driving away potential new fans.

I actually can still see that happening. Take my little brothers for example. Every time a new superhero movie comes out they go apeshit. They have a shit-ton of Hulk, Spiderman, Iron Man, Transformers, ext. toys and merchandise, and they only have those because of the live-action movies. And they don't have just movie related merch either. They have toys and action figures from other mediums (Comics, Cartoons, ext). My little brothers can't be the only kids like that.

This movie is really going to appeal to that group of kids. And whether or not the story of a movie is good/bad/make-sense/is-paced-well doesn't matter to kids. All that matters is cool fighting, lots of action, and tons of fantastical things. And this movie has a lot of that.

On the outside of the fandom, I actually think this movie is going to sell pretty well. It probably won't kill at box office, but it's going to at least make up for it's budget.