What things irreversibly lowered your opinion of the series?

[Hellspawn28]

The Kai part 2 crap. So much lack of care in the green tint, score, etc. I fear for Super if that's the treatment Kai got.

Super is an actual new series being made for Japan. Boo Kai was a cheap repackaging of Z done for foreign licensees because they requested one (and it also required Toei to hire many of Japan's most expensive VAs for it). They're not really comparable.

New animation could be crap. Could go the Sailor Moon Crystal route. I fear toei may be too cheap.

Or it could look similar to what we got in the 2008 Jump Special hopefully.

[dbzfan7]

Or it could look similar to what we got in the 2008 Jump Special hopefully.

It's more likely to be shit than good. Don't have much belief in the musical score either.

[The Monkey King]

After Vegeta allowed Cell to become Perfect, I think Goku should have beat him into a paste if not outright kill him, but that's just me.

Why? That would just make Goku a blatant hypocrite.
He allowed Freeza to power up to 100%. The only difference is that fortunately for Goku Freeza was still weaker than him.

Goku probably understands why Vegeta let Cell become perfect and doesn't hold it against him too much.

[DBZAOTA482]

After Vegeta allowed Cell to become Perfect, I think Goku should have beat him into a paste if not outright kill him, but that's just me.

Why? That would just make Goku a blatant hypocrite.
He allowed Freeza to power up to 100%. The only difference is that fortunately for Goku Freeza was still weaker than him.

Goku probably understands why Vegeta let Cell become perfect and doesn't hold it against him too much.

Goku wasn't himself when he did that and he wanted to do it so he could humiliate Freeza.

But I don't think Goku would beat up Vegeta for what he did with Cell. If he did, he'd have to beat up Kuririn too since he's just as responsible if not more. In fact, he'd take Kuririn being responsible worse considering it's something Vegeta would do (purposely giving the opponent the advantage) while Kuririn's case was sudden.

[Puto]

The Kai part 2 crap. So much lack of care in the green tint, score, etc. I fear for Super if that's the treatment Kai got.

Super is an actual new series being made for Japan. Boo Kai was a cheap repackaging of Z done for foreign licensees because they requested one (and it also required Toei to hire many of Japan's most expensive VAs for it). They're not really comparable.

New animation could be crap. Could go the Sailor Moon Crystal route. I fear toei may be too cheap.

Sailor Moon Crystal actually looks really good on home video. It's the original streams that had atrociously cheap animation—which probably makes sense as the series isn't even in an actual TV channel, and as such doesn't have sponsors to pay for a decent budget.

[sintzu]

After Vegeta allowed Cell to become Perfect, I think Goku should have beat him into a paste if not outright kill him.

Goku would've allowed it as well.

The Ultimate shafting. Made me believe what a waste of time Gohan was. So much build up that went out with a whimper.

It all payed off during the Cell games.

[Akyon]

After Vegeta allowed Cell to become Perfect, I think Goku should have beat him into a paste if not outright kill him, but that's just me.

Why? That would just make Goku a blatant hypocrite.
He allowed Freeza to power up to 100%. The only difference is that fortunately for Goku Freeza was still weaker than him.

Goku probably understands why Vegeta let Cell become perfect and doesn't hold it against him too much.

Goku wasn't himself when he did that and he wanted to do it so he could humiliate Freeza.

But I don't think Goku would beat up Vegeta for what he did with Cell. If he did, he'd have to beat up Kuririn too since he's just as responsible if not more. In fact, he'd take Kuririn being responsible worse considering it's something Vegeta would do (purposely giving the opponent the advantage) while Kuririn's case was sudden.

I can't see Goku beating up either of them honestly. He's not that kind of guy.

But I certainly can't see Goku beating Krillin up for not killing an innocent, which in the current timeline, 18 definitely is.
She hadn't killed anyone, she'd just beat up two individuals who wanted to kill her in the first place. Both 18 and 17 had the perfect opportunity to kill Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo and Tenshinhan, but instead told Krillin to heal them up with the Senzus. They could of finished them all off, could have killed Krillin easily, but didn't. Truly they are monsters who deserved death.

Goku beating Krillin up for not destroying an innocent individual with no killing intent would be something that would lower my opinion of him for sure since he allowed Vegeta to live in the Saiyan Saga who was definitely NOT an innocent and was perfectly happy to blow Earth and all it's inhabitants into space dust.

[sintzu]

Vegeta's promised day is given to Goku once again, and to add insult to injury, he would've died if it wasn't for Goku's plot shield.

Thanks AT for shittin' on Vegeta fans for the nth time.

Goku would've died as well if Vegeta didn't step in and Goku killing Freeza wasn't due to Vegeta being to weak to do it himself so it doesn't hurt Vegeta's character.

He's on the same level as Goku now and is being trained by the same mentor.
He got the newest ssj form alongside Goku.
He got to save Goku from Freeza.
He got the final battle and defeated Freeza.

What would you have chosen for Vegeta :

1- A long battle that has him outclassed for the majority of it which leads to him getting beamed to the heart by Sorbet then stomped on by Freeza.
or
2- A short battle that has him in full control of it which ends in him winning it but not getting the final blow ?

I do want to see Vegeta get more and I have a strong feeling that he's going to in Super but as of now he's gotten a lot of shining moments throughout the entire story so saying that Toriyama is always shitting on him doesn't make any sense.

[Doctor.]

I can't see Goku beating up either of them honestly. He's not that kind of guy.

But I certainly can't see Goku beating Krillin up for not killing an innocent, which in the current timeline, 18 definitely is.
She hadn't killed anyone, she'd just beat up two individuals who wanted to kill her in the first place. Both 18 and 17 had the perfect opportunity to kill Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo and Tenshinhan, but instead told Krillin to heal them up with the Senzus. They could of finished them all off, could have killed Krillin easily, but didn't. Truly they are monsters who deserved death.

Goku beating Krillin up for not destroying an innocent individual with no killing intent would be something that would lower my opinion of him for sure since he allowed Vegeta to live in the Saiyan Saga who was definitely NOT an innocent and was perfectly happy to blow Earth and all it's inhabitants into space dust.

The thing is that Kuririn was dumb because 18 could and most likely would have been re-activated in the future after he pressed that button.

[Puto]

No, if he just disabled her, Cell could still absorb her (at one point Cell even wishes he had the remote as it'd make absorbing the androids much easier). The whole point was to turn her off and then blow her up while she's defenceless.

[Doctor.]

No, if he just disabled her, Cell could still absorb her (at one point Cell even wishes he had the remote as it'd make absorbing the androids much easier). The whole point was to turn her off and then blow her up while she's defenceless.

They still had the Dragon Balls, really. Piccolo's judgement during the Boo arc, that no matter how many people you sacrifice, you can still revive them, though very cruel, is still the most logical and rational option to take in these times of need.

[Lord Frieza]

Nothing really has because I love the series and except it for what it is, that includes some of the more negative aspects. There are thing I wish had been done better but oh well.

[Akyon]

No, if he just disabled her, Cell could still absorb her (at one point Cell even wishes he had the remote as it'd make absorbing the androids much easier). The whole point was to turn her off and then blow her up while she's defenceless.

They still had the Dragon Balls, really. Piccolo's judgement during the Boo arc, that no matter how many people you sacrifice, you can still revive them, though very cruel, is still the most logical and rational option to take in these times of need.

Piccolo's judgement in the Buu saga to sacrifice the humans though was a last ditch attempt in all fairness.
He didn't want to do it but no one could stop Super Buu at that point and they needed time for Goten and Trunks to gain enough power and fuse in order to save the planet. Vegeta and Trunks BOTH were strong enough to stop Imperfect Cell, they just didn't in Vegeta's case or couldn't in Trunks' case due to Vegeta's meddling.

Again though the sheer general apathy for life on Earth in the Buu saga is one of those things that turned me off that arc.
Luckily the finale somewhat retconned this apathetic viewpoint by having everyone in the world combine their life force to overcome ridiculous odds. Corny though it might be, it saved the series a little for me.

[dbzfan7]

The Ultimate shafting. Made me believe what a waste of time Gohan was. So much build up that went out with a whimper.

It all payed off during the Cell games.

Not at all, that was a botch and disaster. It coulda lead to something which it was, and then was fucked over for the biggest asspull ending.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Edit: Reasons that Lowered My Opinion of the Series.
- Overdistribution of SSJ forms. Basically if Pan gets it next, I'm seriously beyond done caring.
- Constant SSJ Form stacking with no actual bonuses or any new techniques.
- The Sayians being OP in general. Unlike DC that has a balance of having a whole universe of Superman like aliens besides the Kryprtons.
- SSJGSSJ in general. The form is just a reset. There is literally no difference to Goku's strength beyond hair colour and in-universe tier.
- Overly simplistic character motives now adays. Lack of any depth to the story driven plots unlike the TV specials.
- The name "Golden Freeza" and "SSJGSS" being the worst titles ever.
- Freeza being overmarketed as a solo gimmick.
- Lack of non-Saiyan related lore.
- No variety at all to character fighting types or abilities. (At least Bleach, O.P. & Naruto have that)
- The show completely lacking Martial Arts elements and decipline now. (Aside from Whis)
- 3-minute redo thing from Whis ruined the movie for me. It was just flat-out asspull.
- Characters being called a "genius" to buffer or justify Deus-Ex power ups.
- The very sloppy animation and jarring while still unecessary CGI.

[ABED]

- Overdistribution of SSJ forms. Basically if Pan gets it next, I'm seriously beyond done caring.<br abp="695">- Constant SSJ Form stacking with no actual bonuses or any new techniques.<br abp="696">- The Sayians being OP in general. Unlike DC that has a balance of having a whole universe of Superman like aliens besides the Kryprtons.<br abp="697">- SSJGSSJ in general. The form is just a reset. There is literally no difference to Goku's strength beyond hair colour and in-universe tier.<br abp="698">- Overly simplistic character motives now adays. Lack of any depth to the story driven plots unlike the TV specials.<br abp="699">- The name "Golden Freeza" and "SSJGSS" being the worst titles ever.<br abp="700">- Freeza being overmarketed as a solo gimmick.<br abp="701">- Lack of non-Saiyan related lore.<br abp="702">- No variety at all to character fighting types or abilities. (At least Bleach, O.P. & Naruto have that)<br abp="703">- The show completely lacking Martial Arts elements and decipline now. (Aside from Whis)<br abp="704">- 3-minute redo thing from Whis ruined the movie for me. It was just flat-out asspull.<br abp="705">- Characters being called a "genius" to buffer or justify Deus-Ex power ups.<br abp="706">- The very sloppy animation and slopp while unecessary CGI.

Are these things you don't like or things that irreversibly lowered your opinion of the series?

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why the above quote looks like crap with stuff like <br abp="704">?

[TobyS]

Piccolo is thrown away to boost SK yet SK is then made to look pretty weak making Piccolos relavency sacrifice for nothing.

What in the world is "SK"?

..anyone? I'm completely lost here, and I'm not the only one.
<Adamant> http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 31#p933331 <-- anyone know? Is it shortform for some bizarre dub term or something?
<Adamant> "Super Kamiccolo" or some shit?
<@TripleRach> That's all I can think of, but it's not from the dub
<@TripleRach> Never saw "SK" before just then either

Yeah, as the other guy said it was supreme kai.

It's one weak annoying cliche to have a character bitch out to another character just to make them look better. But Piccolo got a double insult in so much as the guy he wussed out to turned out to be nothing special in z-fighter terms.

Thanks for all the replies so far everyone, yeah I still like DB and I'm not asking "how would you rewrite it" or "what made you start hating it" simply what was written what do you think was bad and negatively affected the franchises overall quality, most of you get it, just re-iterating.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Are there elements of new material that I don't like? Sure, some of the new content can be disappointing or seem like an asspull. Nothing we've gotten so far has irreversibly lowered my opinion of the series though. I accept it for what it is; a franchise generally aimed at young kids that I also happen to enjoy.

[FortuneSSJ]

Nothing to be honest.
I'm pretty satisfied with everything I got back then. GT included. Which i think it gave the best ending this series could ever had. And Goku jr OVA just complemented it.

Now I'm getting new stuff without have asked anything. Because of the reason I said above, I was one of those fans that had move on and was not begging for new stuff.
Dragon Ball will always be my favourite series but there is more anime/manga out there that I want to watch.

So before BOG came out, my love for the series had been kinda sleeping, until BOG was announced and I feel like a kid again..
The hype was so big that I decided to create an account here and I'm no even the foruns guy. Now, I'm enjoying the ride on the Hype Train and will be aboard like a kid again.

If I like all the new stuff? God no. Minus was horrible (Gine best waifu though <3). The stupid name Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is a offense to my intelligence
Don't enjoy Golden Freeza either and seeing characters looking anorectic pisses me off, etc... But the good is more than enough to compensate the bad.

There are a lot of goods things in these new stuff, that's why I'm still aboard on the Hype Train.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Are these things you don't like or things that irreversibly lowered your opinion of the series?

Both influence each other to an extent. The things I don't like are the usual reoccuring disappointments in certain areas that repeat these days lowered my expectations enough for it to be irreversable. I can wish for better tellings of said scenarios and have thought up some I'd prefer to see if I were in charge, but knowing that the lackluster elements that havent changed since the Buu saga are the standard is enough for me not to care enough for optimism.