Piccolo's line concerning Kaioshin

[Piccolo Daimao]

Could someone tell me both the original Japanese and Viz versions of Piccolo's line concerning Kaiôshin (after he forfeited the Tenka'ichi Budokai match)?

[Herms]

The "original and Japanese versions"? How does that work?

He says "Chigai-sugiru…jigen ga…"/"Our dimensions...are too different". It's the same thing Tenshinhan says when he sees Super Saiyan Goku.

[Rocketman]

Oh, ok, so all Piccolo was saying is that Supreme Kai is a lot shorter than him.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

No, I think he's saying that Kaiohshin is always in a parallel dimension even when he's with someone else.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

We've been discussing this for a while elsewhere, and people are arguing that Piccolo's saying that Kaioshin is way stronger than him when he says this line, but I don't believe that he's saying that. I've been arguing that Piccolo was responding to his the type of ki that he sensed from Kaioshin, sensing that his ki was of Kaioshin origin. Piccolo knew what kind of ki was divine because of Kami, and Kami was in tune with higher dimensions more than someone like Goku or pre-fusion Piccolo himself.

This also explains why he asks Kaioshin who he is after he forfeits the match against him. I don't believe that Kaioshin is that strong at all. I don't even have him over Super Saiya-jin Mirai Trunks when he first appears in the series.

[Herms]

I've been arguing that Piccolo was responding to his the type of ki that he sensed from Kaioshin, sensing that his ki was of Kaioshin origin. Piccolo knew what kind of ki was divine because of Kami, and Kami was in tune with higher dimensions more than someone like Goku or pre-fusion Piccolo himself.

It's really not that complicated. Like I said, Tenshinhan says the same thing when seeing Super Saiyan Goku. And Toriyama says the same thing in Shenlong Times #3 when talking about this guy he knows who is way better at sculpting than he is. It just means that someone's a lot better than you, like how you'd say that someone is "on a different level". Saying that it's about being tuned in to higher dimensions is overthinking the hell out of it.

[Blue]

He says "Chigai-sugiru…jigen ga…"/"Our dimensions...are too different". It's the same thing Tenshinhan says when he sees Super Saiyan Goku.

That's not true Piccolo you both are written by Toriyama. You are all equally one dimensional.
(Joking...just joking.)

[desirecampbell]

I actually just now thought about this - if the reason Piccolo forfeited to Kaioshin was because he sensed a larger amount of ki from Kaioshin (ie: he was stronger), then the other Z-senshi would have felt it too. Since there's no indication that the others felt any kind of large power from Kaioshin, it stands to reason that Piccolo's decision was based on his being a god, not strong.

[Herms]

But Goku actually asks Piccolo if Kaioshin is really so strong, which is when Piccolo says that line. This implies Goku thinks Piccolo is somehow better able to answer that question than he himself is.

[Savage68]

Piccolo has always been the one to turn to regarding someone's ki - especially in the Buu saga, when everyone else seems to have forgotten that ability all over the place.

He always appears to have better ki-sensing capabilities than the rest. And, of course, he was directly in front of the dude.

Since there's no indication that the others felt any kind of large power from Kaioshin, it stands to reason that Piccolo's decision was based on his being a god, not strong.

He didn't act anything like that when he was around Kaio. He was actually quite the opposite.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I would have to agree with Ketchup_Revenge here. Kaiohshin is simply not that strong, it's just that his Ki is Godly and that is probably what had intimidated Piccolo.

[Savage68]

So you think someone capable of completely immobilizing a SSj 2 and holding his own against Majin Buu 'isn't that strong'?

The only reason people are even saying that is because he's scared of everything and loses the only fight he ever gets in.

But let's say Piccolo didn't know how strong he was. Is there anything that suggests the opposite - that Piccolo is stronger than Kaioshin?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

But let's say Piccolo didn't know how strong he was. Is there anything that suggests the opposite - that Piccolo is stronger than Kaioshin?

Exactly. We don't know, this is just pure speculation based on what we are told during the series which can be interpreted in different ways.

[Savage68]

In that case, the Daiz would act as a tiebreaker. After all, nothing contradicts it.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

In that case, the Daiz would act as a tiebreaker. After all, nothing contradicts it.

...and nothing supports it, so lets end this conversation.

[Savage68]

That was a lame retort. Nothing has to support it - it's a damn guide to the series. It's very purpose is to either tells us what we already know, or tell us what hasn't been explicitly stated or shown.

The guides >>> any fan's opinion, like it or not.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

That was a lame retort. Nothing has to support it - it's a damn guide to the series. It's very purpose is to either tells us what we already know, or tell us what hasn't been explicitly stated or shown.

The guides >>> any fan's opinion, like it or not.

The Daizenshuu doesn't explicitly say that Kaiohshin is stronger than Piccolo.

[Savage68]

It says he's much stronger than Piccolo.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

It says he's much stronger than Piccolo.

Which Daizenshuu? Can you provide a scan or a translation.

[Savage68]

Unless Rachel doesn't know wtf she's talking about, Daiz 7 says so:

界王神(東の界王神)
Kaioushin (Higashi no Kaioushin)
Kaioushin (East Kaioushin)
Currently, he is the Kami that stands above all the other Kami throughout the world.
[His.] Starting with the Dai Kaioushin, four Kaioushin were absorbed or killed by Majin Boo, whom Madoushi Bibbidi had created, but one survived. After Majin Boo was revived by Madoushi Bibbidi's son, Bobbidi, he fused with his attendant, Kibito, via the Potara and was unable to return to his original form.
[Fir.] Chapter 437
[Par.] Despite his small stature and apparent weakness, he gives off signs that he hides great power. He combines a very serious personality with an overly self-conscious face. He also has telepathic abilities, and is able to converse with people over long distances. Originally, five Kaioushin existed, but the one who is currently remaining and stands as the greatest deity is only he, who supervises the East area, and his attendant, Kibito. (Daizenshuu 2, Page 176)
[Tech.] Kiaihou, Kanashibari, etc
[Bat.] His strength far surpasses the Super Namekkian Piccolo's, but among the original five Kaioushin, he was weakest. He was beaten up by both Majin Boo pre-revival and Majin Boo post-revival. There were times when he was dangerously close to dying.
[Ten.] He took the name Shin to conceal his identity as Kaioushin and entered the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai. Broke through the preliminaries. In the first round of the actual event, he beat Piccolo by default.