Kaio

[Vagrant_Samurai]

I'm having a bit of a dilemma as I have not read the manga.

What is the exact number of Kaio in the universe?

In the Funimation Dub of the Anime, I have a number.

The Dai Kaioshin
The Four Kaioshin Beneath Him
The Four Dai Kaio Beneath Them
The Four Kaio Beneath Them

Kaio : 4 x 4 x 4 = 64
Dai Kaio : 4 x 4 = 16
Kaioshin : 4
Dai Kaioshin : 1

64 + 16 + 4 + 1 = 85

85 Kaio in the Universe.

Does this Hold true for the Toei Version? And what of the original Manga? Am I making a horrendous mistake? Please explain.

[Booney]

Isn't it,
1 Dai Kaioshin
4 Kaioshin
1 Dai Kaio
4 Kaio?

[Bussani]

No, I think that's pretty wrong in all the versions, though granted the dub makes it sound confusing. There's 1 Dai Kaioshin and 4 Kaioshin beneath him (north, east, south and west). Beneath them is 1 Dai Kaio, who has 4 Kaios beneath him (again, north, east, south and west). This means there are 10 Kaio/Kaioshins altogether.

Starting from the bottom, the 4 Kaio watch over the 4 corners of the living universe, and they all answer to the Dai Kaio. Above that, the 4 Kaioshin watch over not only the living universe, but the afterlife as well, and they all report back to the Dai Kaioshin.

You can check out the God Guide for more info.

[desirecampbell]

Herms explains everything here: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =7&t=11596

But long story short: There were ten (five Kaio, five Kaioshin), and at the end of the Boo arc there's seven (five Kaio, plus one Kaioshin, plus the old Kaioshin who doesn't really have a position).

[Rocketman]

First, there's only one Daikaio. So there's four Kaio under one Daikaio. Then this one Daikaio is under the four Kaioshin, who are under the Daikaioshin. Ten in total.

Of course, that was before Buu. Now there's only six, then seven when the Z sword gets broken.


Edit: Goddamnit, all of you.

[ThunderPX]

Herms explains everything here: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =7&t=11596

But long story short: There were ten (five Kaio, five Kaioshin), and at the end of the Boo arc there's seven (five Kaio, plus one Kaioshin, plus the old Kaioshin who doesn't really have a position).

You know, that reminds me. Whatever happened to the Kaioshin that were killed by Buu all those years before, if North Kaio just came back with a halo after he was blown up?

[Herms]

You know, that reminds me. Whatever happened to the Kaioshin that were killed by Buu all those years before, if North Kaio just came back with a halo after he was blown up?

There are a few possibilities:

1. They really are still around somewhere in the afterlife, and just never show up. Maybe they're too ashamed over their failure to stop Boo to show themselves.

2. After being killed, they challanged Boo again, but naturally were killed once again, and so vanished completely from both the living world and afterlife. This is the sort of thing Goku warns Vegeta about during the final battle with Boo.

3. The original, pure form of Boo is so demonic and evil and whatnot that all those killed by him are unable to pass over, and instead their spirits are trapped forever between the living world and afterlife. This is what is supposed to happen to those killed by demons like Piccolo Daimao and his men. This would only apply to pure Boo, since we see those killed by fat Boo end up in the afterlife.

[Vegeta Jr]

I like the explanation of number 3, it fits in with the Dragon Ball lore.

Also TC why on earth are you multiplying them, you should be adding them together but even then your source numbers are wrong.

As stated it's 10 but would you count the Elder Kai aswell? What about Kibito?

[caejones]

Also TC why on earth are you multiplaying them, you should be adding them together but even then your source numbers are wrong.

Not trying to be a jerk, but that typo made me think of some manner of Kaio multiplayer game of awesomeness. XD

As stated it's 10 but would you count the Elder Kai aswell? What about Kibito?

Kibito is an attendant like Mr. Popo and Karin, as I understand it... though is it possible that he is the same race as the Kaio, even though he isn't a Kaio/Kaioshin himself?

[Dayspring]

Also TC why on earth are you multiplaying them, you should be adding them together but even then your source numbers are wrong.

Not trying to be a jerk, but that typo made me think of some manner of Kaio multiplayer game of awesomeness. XD

As stated it's 10 but would you count the Elder Kai aswell? What about Kibito?

Kibito is an attendant like Mr. Popo and Karin, as I understand it... though is it possible that he is the same race as the Kaio, even though he isn't a Kaio/Kaioshin himself?

Yes. The Kaio aren't worthy enough to meet Kaioshin and they're the most divine species in existence. Plus, they technically are the same species. I can see Kaioshin grabbing a non-Kaio member of their race to be his attendant. Another possibility is that Kibito is a member of the Kaioshin race, but wasn't powerful enough to become an actual Kaioshin replacement.

While I get the purpose of his name is to be a pun on how he's an attendant to Kaioshin, is it possible he flat out is a Kaioshin himself? Kaioshin kind of bowed down to Ro Kaioshin. Is it possible Kibito is waiting for Kaioshin to simply step down?

[Adamant]

Doubt it. If he was Kaioushin material, why wouldn't he just take one of the three other empty Kaioushin positions?

[Dayspring]

Doubt it. If he was Kaioushin material, why wouldn't he just take one of the three other empty Kaioushin positions?

Presumably the same reason Kaioshin didn't take up the Dai Kaioshin's position.

[Herms]

As stated it's 10 but would you count the Elder Kai aswell? What about Kibito?

The Elder Kaioshin is kind of an exception because he's a hold-over from a previous generation. How this god system is supposed to work is that at any one time there will be 5 Kaios and 5 Kaioshins. As Toriyama says in the SEG, when a Kaio/shin dies, a replacement is chosen by lottery from among the members of a special race called the Shinjin, who are born from World Tree fruit. Kaio are selected from regular Shinjin, while Kaioshin are only selected from Shinjin born from rare golden fruit. In the series of course there's only one Kaioshin left of the five that were around when Boo was created, and it's never explained why those empty positions haven't been filled in the millions of years since Boo's rampage. I guess we're supposed to assume that no new golden World Tree fruit have grown since then. The Elder Kaioshin was the East Kaioshin 15 generations back. Goku and Kibito refer to him as "Dai-Kaioshin" in one chapter (and then abruptly stop in the next), which may mean he took over the empty position of Dai-Kaioshin.

Kibito is the attendant or assistant of the Kaioshins, which where his name comes from: "attendant" in Japanese is tsukibito. It's not known if he's a Shinjin or not.

[Gaffer Tape]

Goku and Kibito refer to him as "Dai-Kaioshin" in one chapter (and then abruptly stop in the next), which may mean he took over the empty position of Dai-Kaioshin.

That must be why, for years, I thought that he was a Dai Kaioshin and was quite confused when I found out that no one else seemed to refer to him as having that title.

[Innagadadavida]

The dub calls the Dai-Kaioshin "Dai-Kaio." Furthering confusion. The REAL Dai-Kaio is called "Grand Kai."

[Dayspring]

As stated it's 10 but would you count the Elder Kai aswell? What about Kibito?

The Elder Kaioshin is kind of an exception because he's a hold-over from a previous generation. How this god system is supposed to work is that at any one time there will be 5 Kaios and 5 Kaioshins. As Toriyama says in the SEG, when a Kaio/shin dies, a replacement is chosen by lottery from among the members of a special race called the Shinjin, who are born from World Tree fruit. Kaio are selected from regular Shinjin, while Kaioshin are only selected from Shinjin born from rare golden fruit. In the series of course there's only one Kaioshin left of the five that were around when Boo was created, and it's never explained why those empty positions haven't been filled in the millions of years since Boo's rampage. I guess we're supposed to assume that no new golden World Tree fruit have grown since then. The Elder Kaioshin was the East Kaioshin 15 generations back. Goku and Kibito refer to him as "Dai-Kaioshin" in one chapter (and then abruptly stop in the next), which may mean he took over the empty position of Dai-Kaioshin.

Kibito is the attendant or assistant of the Kaioshins, which where his name comes from: "attendant" in Japanese is tsukibito. It's not known if he's a Shinjin or not.

I like to compare it to editors: the Senior Editor would be on par with the Editor-in-chief while the latter is away, while the Assistant Editor is an editor, but never considered on par with a Junior Editor, which is the lowest ranking editor. Kaioshin would be the Junior Editor, Kibito an Assistant Editor, the Elder Kaioshin a Senior Editor, and the Dai Kaioshin the Editor-In-Chief. Just swap the word "editor" in those titles with "Kaioshin."