Kanzenshuu

It was clearly obvious that # 17 would have wone that match.

We also don't know if the attack Piccolo used on Cell would have done some serious damage to 17 since Piccolo lost a lot of his power before he fired that attack.

I have Yamcha over a million in the Android saga.

#20 said that if he absorbed the power of the the humans and Piccolo he would be abel to defeat SSJ Vegeta easilly.Yamcha increased his power so much after Kami's with normal earth gravity that i see why wouldn't he increase his power as much until ...

Yamcha was just plain MUCH stronger then Olibu.He defeated Olibu and another random fighter with utter ease.

Pikkon couldn't beat Olibu until he got his weights off.Pikkon weighted defeated Cell.

Yamcha>Pikkon>Olibu>Cell

TOEI just made Yamcha and Olibu THAT strong.

There is no proof that Olibu ...

A full power punch from base Goku couldn't even budge Android 20 and #20 was even caught off guard by that punch.

No problem.

Unbelievable.

Absolutely, simply, uneducatedly, disgustingly, jaw-droppingly, astonishingly unbelievable.

I think there was a recent comment like this where someone was able to tear into it and showcase exactly why it was one of the most ignorant statements ever made with regards to DragonBall ...

I think Super Buu was stronger since he said that only Gohan was stronger then him.

And we now 19 was built before 20 because he was the one who converted Gero into 20 (or at least 17 and 18 assume as much).

(I remember the FUNi dub saying a few years ago he was the ultimate android or something, but I don't like the dub anymore and know it can be inaccurate at times).
Well, in ...

The Daiz is not canon.It has 1001 mistakes that contradicts the manga.It should not be taken serious by anyone.
Unbelievable.

Absolutely, simply, uneducatedly, disgustingly, jaw-droppingly, astonishingly unbelievable.

I think there was a recent comment like this where someone was able to tear ...

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
I don't recall that being stated in any source. Could be wrong, though. The Daiz states Kaioshin's power is far greater than Piccolo's,.

The Daiz is not canon.It has 1001 mistakes that contradicts the manga.It should not be taken serious by anyone.

I also believe that Yamcha is very strong by the Android saga just because like everyone said Gero thought that Yamcha and the others humans would be a good energy source and that with that energy he could beat SSJ Vegeta.

If he was below a million that wouldn't be considered a good energy source ...

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:He had enough power to blow up an energy beam that was going to take Gohan into space.

He did that with magic not with raw power.His magic was showed to be miles above his raw power.

Vegeta was talking about not being able to tell exactly how strong Kaioshin was, not about having no clue whatsoever how strong he was (and he doesn't mention Kibito at all anyway).

It's the same.

He still does not know exactly how strong he is.It's logical that Gohan wouldn't be abel to tell ...

Gohan also says when he's about to begin the match with Kibito that even though Bulma told him to hide his true power so as not to cause a commotion, Kibito doesn't seem to be the sort of opponent he can beat while still disguising his power like this.

Like I said , Vegeta stated that they are ...

That's another mistake in the Daizenshu and the Daizenshu has plenty of them.

Kibito is WEAK and weaker then base Gohan,shown with the Z sword.

Well, that's assuming arm strength and overall fighting ability are one and the same. Goku was pretty impressed with both Kaioshin and Kibito when they ...

Here we go again. Are we even sure that the same thing was said in the original version? I remember that in the Viz edition many things were different than in the original version.

2. Viz Vegeta states: "The fat one's power is going down... they can get hurt, when they're fighting another Boo." I guess Vegeta just reckoned that since Fat Boo is technically the same person as Kid Boo, he thought that Fat Boo wouldn't get hurt.

Are you sure that they said the same thing in ...

Even after he realized that Vegeta outclasses him in every way he still thought about that 10x gravity thing.

Now since he knows that Vegeta is much stronger then him and that 10x gravity is nothing to himself then why would it bother Vegeta,someone much stronger then him in base(showed)

Pui is ...

Bussani wrote:but SSJ Goku can punch him around the planet. Also, how he loses, but I don't want to say in case you don't want spoilers.

After SSJ Goku punched him Super 17 did say that he was just playing around and that he could see troughGoku's attacks easily and then beats that SSJ Goku easilly.

Bringing made up numbers into the discussion is pointless. DBZ is not algebra. 25 x does not equal Goku y. Nobody can assign a number to the battle powers of Buu, SSJ3 Goku, or any of the Kaioshin. If Fat Buu was stronger than Chibi Buu, don't you think he would have won their fight? That's how I ...

FistOfTheSun wrote:
Now considering Tenshinhan is supposedly weaker than First Form Freeza, this fact just puts all the more emphasis on how powerful the technique is to hold Cell back..

He is probably above that level after King Kai training only.