Can we consider Piccolo Daimao and Piccolo Jr the same person?

[KBABZ]

Oh, my dear, don't jump into conclusion and come off as condescending. You took a while to respond me and when I posted mine I hadn't seen yours as I was responding you and someone else. Anyway, you are halfway wrong at any rate. Because all you have are statements. But guess what? There are statements in my favor too:


As you can see, there are multiple occasions where it's clear Piccolo Daimaoh and Piccolo aren't the same individuals. Now, if Piccolo Daimaoh was Piccolo, why is Piccolo referring him as "father"? Why Kami himself makes a distinguish? I'm also using your precious "statements" as my arguments. Cool, huh?

As you can see here, Piccolo says" This time I will kill you, I'm not a the same level I was three years ago"


*snip*

So it's clear, they're the same being, Piccolo Jr refers to Daimao as himself

The Viz translation I have of that same scene is "The Demon King you are about to fight cannot be compared to the one you defeated three years ago" . There is no "I" in this one, but I curious how this was handled in the original.

Yeah I find it suspect that Daima is using a fan translation rather than an official one (and a fanlation that uses Comic Sans with that terrible scan quality that flips the reading to left-to-right at that).

There's also this line earlier from Goku: "Except, compared t' the last Piccolo... this one's way stronger!"

Funnily enough my ViZ translation of that line is is different from Michsi's: "The Demon King Piccolo you are about to encounter cannot be compared to him whom you fought three years ago."

And, since I was browsing, here's ViZ's line where Jr. declares who he is: "I am the Great Demon King's Reincarnation!!!!" Sounds more separated than "I am King Piccolo, reincarnated" to me.

[Apslup]

Of course, they are different people. While Piccolo Jr shares the most similarities to Piccolo Daimao of all of Daimao's children and they have the same memories, they are different people. How Jr changed during the Saiyan Saga and beyond should be proof enough.

I don't buy into the whole "reincarnation" thing, since Jr was born out from a dieing Piccolo Daimao, being born to carry on his Father's legacy so he would have needed all of the memories his Father held in order to fuel him to help achieve his late Father's goals. This is also the reason why he looks so similar to Piccolo Daimao, since Jr is going to take his late Father's place as the Demon King so he'll need to look like Daimao to do so.

[Michsi]

Funnily enough my ViZ translation of that line is is different from Michsi's: "The Demon King Piccolo you are about to encounter cannot be compared to him whom you fought three years ago."

I was paraphrasing mostly I threw one look at my volume remembering that it was different from what was posted here and replied while trying to keep it mostly correct. Also, I am so not a fan of Piccolo's archaic arch-villain speak they gave him in these volumes

[Grimlock]

Yeah I find it suspect that Daima is using a fan translation rather than an official one (and a fanlation that uses Comic Sans with that terrible scan quality that flips the reading to left-to-right at that).

At this point it's clear he's just desperate to prove himself to be right for some reason. Which is extremely weird, the title of the thread is a question, which requires a claim and something to back it up said claim. While he does have some points, there are statements saying Piccolo Daimaoh and Piccolo aren't the same individuals as well. So it's just one of many issues in Dragon Ball where we can't have a single, clear answer on the subject. It seems like he created the thread, posted his point and just want people to agree.

Anyway, I also used mangareader because the other website was under maintenance (still is), but I actually used Kanzenshuu translations. Since mangareader was correct, I went with it.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's pretty obviously a trinity-esque situation. He both is and isn't Daimao. There's too much evidence pointing both ways for it to be anything else.

[ABED]

Denying what? I said clearly that I believe the story leans towards one version, not that it evidently is one way or the other. I am very aware that there are scenes which favor the other interpretation, but over all I think one is more prevalent than the other and it's the interpretation I prefer.

Denying evidence that it's both. I get it, you think the story favors one way, but it has still at various times either referred to him as Daimao or Daimao's son. Whether you or I prefer it either way, that the story has said both is proof enough that they are both.

[MyVisionity]

I don't buy into the whole "reincarnation" thing, since Jr was born out from a dieing Piccolo Daimao, being born to carry on his Father's legacy so he would have needed all of the memories his Father held in order to fuel him to help achieve his late Father's goals. This is also the reason why he looks so similar to Piccolo Daimao, since Jr is going to take his late Father's place as the Demon King so he'll need to look like Daimao to do so.

I agree with this. The reincarnation aspect shouldn't be taken too literally; I doubt they share the same soul. I see Ma Junior as being another version of Piccolo, or Piccolo 2.0 in other words.

[Piccolo_Daima]

Yeah I find it suspect that Daima is using a fan translation rather than an official one (and a fanlation that uses Comic Sans with that terrible scan quality that flips the reading to left-to-right at that).

At this point it's clear he's just desperate to prove himself to be right for some reason. Which is extremely weird, the title of the thread is a question, which requires a claim and something to back it up said claim. While he does have some points, there are statements saying Piccolo Daimaoh and Piccolo aren't the same individuals as well. So it's just one of many issues in Dragon Ball where we can't have a single, clear answer on the subject. It seems like he created the thread, posted his point and just want people to agree.

Anyway, I also used mangareader because the other website was under maintenance (still is), but I actually used Kanzenshuu translations. Since mangareader was correct, I went with it.

So we have to ignore every time Piccolo Jr said he's the reincarnation of Daimao just because you say so, right?

[Grimlock]

So we have to ignore every time Piccolo and Kami said they aren't the same just because you say so, right?

Again, there are evidences for both sides. I actually acknowledged that in the very post you quoted, if only you had read it.

Just curiosity: why the odd need to be right? You wanted our opinion if we can consider them as the same person, I don't and presented my arguments, and now you are here forcing your opinion down our throats. What's the point of your thread if you can't accept there are evidences against you and other's opinions?

[Michsi]

Denying what? I said clearly that I believe the story leans towards one version, not that it evidently is one way or the other. I am very aware that there are scenes which favor the other interpretation, but over all I think one is more prevalent than the other and it's the interpretation I prefer.

Denying evidence that it's both. I get it, you think the story favors one way, but it has still at various times either referred to him as Daimao or Daimao's son. Whether you or I prefer it either way, that the story has said both is proof enough that they are both.

I don't know how more clearly I can put things than that I acknowledge the scenes that favor the reincarnation bit, but still believe the story ends us treating them more as separate individuals. Daimaou litteraly translate into "great demon king"- that's a title and Piccolo Jr. very evidently inherited that, same as his name. If I believe one set of evidences outweighs the other by quite a bit, I am logically going to form my opinion regarding that character based on that.

Apslup actually worded it perfectly - reincarnation comes after death, but King Piccolo was just dying when he created Piccolo Jr.

[ABED]

You're perfectly clear, and you're welcome to take it whatever way you want, but the story clearly considers him to be both father and son even if it says one or the other at different times.

[KBABZ]

Also, I am so not a fan of Piccolo's archaic arch-villain speak they gave him in these volumes

Oh I totally agree on that, I'm glad it went away by the time he reappeared in the Namek arc on King Kai's planet.

At this point it's clear he's just desperate to prove himself to be right for some reason. Which is extremely weird, the title of the thread is a question, which requires a claim and something to back it up said claim. While he does have some points, there are statements saying Piccolo Daimaoh and Piccolo aren't the same individuals as well. So it's just one of many issues in Dragon Ball where we can't have a single, clear answer on the subject. It seems like he created the thread, posted his point and just want people to agree.

My problem is that Daima makes the thread title an inquisitive question, as if he's asking for different opinions, and then shuts down any opinion that isn't his. I get it, I disagree with a lot of people's stances on specific Dragon Ball facets, but I'm not calling them out on it at every opportunity, we agree to disagree (right Robo?). Further, outside of the opening discussion of "here's why I disagree with you", I take their opinion into consideration and am appreciative to have learned it.

Daima on the other hand has repeatedly tried to convince us that his side is correct and the only interpretation that should be accepted, which goes against the "what do you think? tone of the thread title. He clearly isn't interested in what we have to say if it's different from what he has to say, he just wants an echo chamber here.

[Michsi]

You're perfectly clear, and you're welcome to take it whatever way you want, but the story clearly considers him to be both father and son even if it says one or the other at different times.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider clear evidence he is also his father?

[ABED]

They present him as the same person in the 23rd TB.

[Michsi]

They present him as the same person in the 23rd TB.

Where exactly? I can't get my volumes right now unfortunately but I remember going over the manga at one point looking for a specific quote for this.

[Piccolo_Daima]

They present him as the same person in the 23rd TB.

Where exactly? I can't get my volumes right now unfortunately but I remember going over the manga at one point looking for a specific quote for this.

Man we already said plenty of times the moments where they presented them as the same person.

Just watch the tournament 23 saga and you'll see it. When Goku explained his friends who was Ma Junior, Goku said he was Daimaho, and he explained how Daimao reincarnated to Piccolo Jr.

Piccolo during the fight with Goku, revealed himself as Piccolo Daimao's reincarnation.

Also we have this scene where Daimao talks to Goku about their fight when Goku was a kid, through Piccolo Jr's body.



What more evidences you need?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Like Kamicollo said, he is (shares the same connection with Kami as Daimao) and he isn't (not a demon, as we see when Goku and Raditz go to Otherworld), so.

[Piccolo_Daima]

Also, I am so not a fan of Piccolo's archaic arch-villain speak they gave him in these volumes

Oh I totally agree on that, I'm glad it went away by the time he reappeared in the Namek arc on King Kai's planet.

At this point it's clear he's just desperate to prove himself to be right for some reason. Which is extremely weird, the title of the thread is a question, which requires a claim and something to back it up said claim. While he does have some points, there are statements saying Piccolo Daimaoh and Piccolo aren't the same individuals as well. So it's just one of many issues in Dragon Ball where we can't have a single, clear answer on the subject. It seems like he created the thread, posted his point and just want people to agree.

My problem is that Daima makes the thread title an inquisitive question, as if he's asking for different opinions, and then shuts down any opinion that isn't his. I get it, I disagree with a lot of people's stances on specific Dragon Ball facets, but I'm not calling them out on it at every opportunity, we agree to disagree (right Robo?). Further, outside of the opening discussion of "here's why I disagree with you", I take their opinion into consideration and am appreciative to have learned it.

Daima on the other hand has repeatedly tried to convince us that his side is correct and the only interpretation that should be accepted, which goes against the "what do you think? tone of the thread title. He clearly isn't interested in what we have to say if it's different from what he has to say, he just wants an echo chamber here.

Funny because what you say about me is exactly what you've been doing. Everytime someone shows you evidences of Piccolo Jr and Daimao being the same, you shut it down with poor excuses like saying that you have a version of the manga and that version you have is the only one that matters like if it was written by Toriyama himself as if he knew english, but the funny part is that you say you've read it many years ago and you don't remember Piccolo saying that at that moment even though we showed you the prove

Reading your comments seems like you want us to erase every time they presented them being the same person just to prove you're right.

[jjgp1112]

They present him as the same person in the 23rd TB.

Where exactly? I can't get my volumes right now unfortunately but I remember going over the manga at one point looking for a specific quote for this.

Man we already said plenty of times the moments where they presented them as the same person.

Just watch the tournament 23 saga and you'll see it. When Goku explained his friends who was Ma Junior, Goku said he was Daimaho, and he explained how Daimao reincarnated to Piccolo Jr.

Piccolo during the fight with Goku, revealed himself as Piccolo Daimao's reincarnation.

Also we have this scene where Daimao talks to Goku about their fight when Goku was a kid, through Piccolo Jr's body.



What more evidences you need?

You keep pointing to this but I don't think this was really meant to be taken literally as Daimao talking through Jr., but just fancy audiovisual methods of demonstrating that it's still the old Piccolo's soul.

[ABED]

You keep pointing to this but I don't think this was really meant to be taken literally as Daimao talking through Jr., but just fancy audiovisual methods of demonstrating that it's still the old Piccolo's soul.

Does that not fit the definition of being both father and son? He has his father's soul, or as I've heard someone say, Piccolo the son is Daimao with a soul.