Is Super Sayain Rage, SSBKK non canon to the DBS Manga

[Miracles]

Incorrect. Toriyama wrote BoG, RoF and Broly. Nothing you posted changes the fact; what he pens, is the actual canon.

Technically he didn't. He came on to BoG after Toei decided to make it and changed numerous aspects of the movie. However, he did not write it at all nor conceive of it, and he didn't rewrite the entire script. For RoF, he came up with the ideas but someone else wrote the actual film script. I believe the same happened for Broly. Toriyama, at most, may think up some character designs now, and he writes general plot outlines. But he isn't writing detailed scripts nor authoring the manga.

As for the above conversation, there is no definitive version of Super. Whereas it used to be that Toriyama drew the manga and the anime was a supplement to it, now the manga is a supplement to the anime (or was until it ended). Both Toei and Toyotaro go from plot point to plot point with their own ideas. This is why the end of the Future Trunks arc is somewhat different in the manga as opposed to the anime (not the very end, but the last few chapters).

In short, there is no "canon." There never has been as Toei and Toriyama have always done things differently. For instance, Toriyama never mentions anything he didn't create such as Coola. He could have easily been mentioned in RoF, but there was no hint of his existence whatsoever. Same for SSB + Kaio-ken in Broly--it was a Toei creation so he didn't reference it. But in the anime, Goku uses that form constantly. The only thing that relates to canon and its existence is the arguments people make about it. That's it.

...

Spoiler:

Questions About the New Movie:
I heard that this is the first time you’ve been deeply involved with the script of a movie; please tell us the reason.
The catalyst was that, first of all, when the script originally came to me, there was a lot of the sort of dialogue that only the creator would know, so I thought, “that bothers me”, and then this and that also started to get on my mind, and so rather than telling them to revise each individual thing, I thought it might be faster if I just wrote the script myself.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... riyama-qa/

What are your thoughts on having participated in the movie?
It was fun~! This time, I devoted myself exclusively to creating the story, so I was happy most of all at how it became many times more enjoyable by other people’s hands. In particular, the climactic battle exceeded my expectations by far!!

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... ma-sensei/

Top-Secret Stories of the Script!

How did you end up writing the story?
When I went to Tokyo, all of a sudden Torishima-san1 told me, “Read this script2. We want to make a movie out of it.” (laughs) When I read it, I thought it might be a bit too complex for kids, and that the story was a bit too serious. For the dialogue as well, there were turns of phrase that only the creator would know, so I sent in a revision, [saying] “How about something like this?” Later, I took a look at the revised script, and as I looked at the dialogue and other parts that bothered me, [it dawned on me that] I had written the entire story without realizing it. (laughs) I felt that the part of a god appearing was the main point of this movie, so I left it in, but the rest had become the story I came up with myself. (laughs wryly)

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... -toriyama/

[As with the last movie], I thought up the new story for the next Dragon Ball theatrical film as though it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization. Just the fact that I don’t have to draw anything means I can obsess completely over the smallest bits of dialogue. Well, the truth is that I wasn’t planning on going that far, since it’s pretty exhausting at my age, but I got a little carried away.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... a-comment/

...all I did was come up with the story, dialogue, and designs; the ones who really had it rough were all the staff members charged with turning it into a single movie. Thanks to them, the movie looks to be a hit.

The character Broly has apparently been popular since way back when, so if the movie weren’t well-received now, it would’ve been because the story I wrote was no good, so I’m a bit relieved. Even so, as I think those of you who’ve seen it already know, those battle scenes done by Toei Animation were amazing. For someone like me, just watching it was exhausting.

To all boys, adult [men] with the hearts of boys, and the perhaps-few-in-number women who understand the hearts of boys, by all means please see [the movie] and get fired up. For me personally, the work “Dragon Ball” is nothing but fighting, which to be perfectly frank, isn’t something I like all that much (laughs), but for some reason, it’s this really fun, mysterious work that gets me excited when I’m coming up with a story. Like that, I’m now an old geezer through and through, but I’m also coming up with ideas for my next work. Let’s meet again sometime in my next work.
—Akira Toriyama

https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/a ... next_work/

Now as far as canon goes...There is a main standard for the story of Dragonball...It's what only Toriyama himself writes...

Spoiler:

■ Becoming Involved For the First Time in a Long While

In the latest movie, Toriyama-san, you participated in the production from the scriptwriting stage for the first time. What is the reason for that? Was there anything you noticed in coming face-to-face with the work after so long?

I was told about a project for Dragon Ball in its first animated film in a long while, and I read the story outline; while the beings “Beerus, God of Destruction” and “Super Saiyan God” (which goes above Super Saiyan) were interesting, the themes were heavy, and I felt that the world was a bit different from Dragon Ball. Rather than telling them about this or that problematic spot, I thought it would be faster if I just wrote it out concretely, and while I had intended just to give them a model―”for example”―my hand wouldn’t stop, and ultimately, I ended up writing almost everything, including the dialogue. I am reflecting on the fact that I did something terribly rude to the scriptwriter.
The serialization (in Weekly Shōnen Jump) was quite a while ago, so there were quite a few parts I’d forgotten, but as I flipped through the pages of my own manga that I hardly ever read, I was immediately able to get back its feeling, as you’d expect of the original creator.

Also, at the time of the Hollywood movie, the live-action Dragon Ball, the script had too little of a grasp on the world and its characteristics, and on top of that, it had a conventional content that I couldn’t find interesting, so I cautioned them, and suggested changes; but in spite of that, they seemed to have a strange confidence, and didn’t really listen to me. What came out in the end was a movie I couldn’t really call a Dragon Ball that lived up to my expectations.1

That being the case, there were parts where I wanted to show some spine, with a world and story only the creator could draw.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... interview/

As you can see, Toriyama wrote the story for all the movies and Canon [authority] of Dragonball is what the creator writes.

[pepd]

That's correct. The TV and manga aren't canon since they are only adapted from Toriyama's "original story draft." They are however "continuity" IE; connected. BoG and RoF are what Super stems from. The source material.

Incorrect. Toriyama wrote BoG, RoF and Broly. Nothing you posted changes the fact; what he pens, is the actual canon.

The editors didn't write the story nor draw what was agreed upon to be changed with Toriyama. Toriyama himself does the manual revisions. Therefore it's STILL his work, therefore canon.

Agree on that dbs manga and anime are not canon, but I would add the movies to this list; in the movies, unlike in DB manga, the final revisions and product is made by Toei, not Toriyama, and not just all the additions to the script to make it a movie, but also some changes and cuts. https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... -toriyama/

We can live whit that the only canon is DB manga and maybe Toriyama's scripts and declarations, say that every official adaption of the script is canon, or use different criteria to decide on what to consider canon or “more canon”.

I personally trust more in Toyotarō to be more faithful to Toriyama's view, since he is a Dragon Ball and Toriyama fanboy, while the movie staff has more commercial worries, let alone the anime staff; so I consider canon the dbs manga, closely followed by the movies.

[Miracles]

That's correct. The TV and manga aren't canon since they are only adapted from Toriyama's "original story draft." They are however "continuity" IE; connected. BoG and RoF are what Super stems from. The source material.

Incorrect. Toriyama wrote BoG, RoF and Broly. Nothing you posted changes the fact; what he pens, is the actual canon.

The editors didn't write the story nor draw what was agreed upon to be changed with Toriyama. Toriyama himself does the manual revisions. Therefore it's STILL his work, therefore canon.

Agree on that dbs manga and anime are not canon, but I would add the movies to this list; in the movies, unlike in DB manga, the final revisions and product is made by Toei, not Toriyama, and not just all the additions to the script to make it a movie, but also some changes and cuts. https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... -toriyama/

We can live whit that the only canon is DB manga and maybe Toriyama's scripts and declarations, say that every official adaption of the script is canon, or use different criteria to decide on what to consider canon or “more canon”.

I personally trust more in Toyotarō to be more faithful to Toriyama's view, since he is a Dragon Ball and Toriyama fanboy, while the movie staff has more commercial worries, let alone the anime staff; so I consider canon the dbs manga, closely followed by the movies.

Revisions are totally based on Toriyama's story tho. Not TOEI's, in the movies.

[Tai Lung]

To avoid the canonicity debate, I'll say SSR is the only anime form that isn't part of the manga continuity in any way. He gets no boosts at all, only in the anime that happens, but he chimes in with his healing ability due to being a kaioshin apprentice.

However, the manga has Vegeta using a boosted SSB form similar to SSBE, with a different aura too, although in the manga he gets one boost and not several like in the animé. And Goku as MSSB boosts his power in a similar way as kaioken does. Both forms are short-lived and not "permanent" boosts like in the anime. Goku doesn't use kaioken as great or as casually as in the animé, and it is considered a bad move and sort of a waste of health. In the anime it's a trump card and like a permanent "form".

have been confirmed to be canon in the manga
https://twitter.com/JaredHendrix6/statu ... 3085258752

No. Whatever Toriyama writes is Dragonball. This is why he rewrote the entire BoG script that TOEI sent him. Since he said it didn't resemble Dragonball's world. Canon by definition is whatever the authority writes, that's Toriyama.

Analyze what you are saying ... under that logic, not even the original DB manga would be canon because the editors changed several things that the author had originally planned.

toriyama intervenes a lot for sure but it's quite illogical that he created things like ikari transformations and even broly's idea was part of toei's staff

In any case, this discussion does not deserve to be repeated.

The editors didn't write the story nor draw what was agreed upon to be changed with Toriyama. Toriyama himself does the manual revisions. Therefore it's STILL his work, therefore canon.

it could be ... in the original manga but not currently
the scripts are not only made by toriyama but also by toei
many characters are from toei kale, dyspo, kefla and toppo etc
many transformations are the idea of toei SSBE, SSBKK and ikari they are also involved

[Miracles]

To avoid the canonicity debate, I'll say SSR is the only anime form that isn't part of the manga continuity in any way. He gets no boosts at all, only in the anime that happens, but he chimes in with his healing ability due to being a kaioshin apprentice.

However, the manga has Vegeta using a boosted SSB form similar to SSBE, with a different aura too, although in the manga he gets one boost and not several like in the animé. And Goku as MSSB boosts his power in a similar way as kaioken does. Both forms are short-lived and not "permanent" boosts like in the anime. Goku doesn't use kaioken as great or as casually as in the animé, and it is considered a bad move and sort of a waste of health. In the anime it's a trump card and like a permanent "form".

have been confirmed to be canon in the manga
https://twitter.com/JaredHendrix6/statu ... 3085258752

Analyze what you are saying ... under that logic, not even the original DB manga would be canon because the editors changed several things that the author had originally planned.

toriyama intervenes a lot for sure but it's quite illogical that he created things like ikari transformations and even broly's idea was part of toei's staff

In any case, this discussion does not deserve to be repeated.

The editors didn't write the story nor draw what was agreed upon to be changed with Toriyama. Toriyama himself does the manual revisions. Therefore it's STILL his work, therefore canon.

it could be ... in the original manga but not currently
the scripts are not only made by toriyama but also by toei
many characters are from toei kale, dyspo, kefla and toppo etc
many transformations are the idea of toei SSBE, SSBKK and ikari they are also involved

No, Toriyama writes the entire scripts for the movie. TOEI has to turn that script into a movie.

[Tai Lung]

To avoid the canonicity debate, I'll say SSR is the only anime form that isn't part of the manga continuity in any way. He gets no boosts at all, only in the anime that happens, but he chimes in with his healing ability due to being a kaioshin apprentice.

However, the manga has Vegeta using a boosted SSB form similar to SSBE, with a different aura too, although in the manga he gets one boost and not several like in the animé. And Goku as MSSB boosts his power in a similar way as kaioken does. Both forms are short-lived and not "permanent" boosts like in the anime. Goku doesn't use kaioken as great or as casually as in the animé, and it is considered a bad move and sort of a waste of health. In the anime it's a trump card and like a permanent "form".

have been confirmed to be canon in the manga
https://twitter.com/JaredHendrix6/statu ... 3085258752

The editors didn't write the story nor draw what was agreed upon to be changed with Toriyama. Toriyama himself does the manual revisions. Therefore it's STILL his work, therefore canon.

it could be ... in the original manga but not currently
the scripts are not only made by toriyama but also by toei
many characters are from toei kale, dyspo, kefla and toppo etc
many transformations are the idea of toei SSBE, SSBKK and ikari they are also involved

No, Toriyama writes the entire scripts for the movie. TOEI has to turn that script into a movie.

but it is not the case of the stories that are not in the movies

[pepd]

That's correct. The TV and manga aren't canon since they are only adapted from Toriyama's "original story draft." They are however "continuity" IE; connected. BoG and RoF are what Super stems from. The source material.

Incorrect. Toriyama wrote BoG, RoF and Broly. Nothing you posted changes the fact; what he pens, is the actual canon.

The editors didn't write the story nor draw what was agreed upon to be changed with Toriyama. Toriyama himself does the manual revisions. Therefore it's STILL his work, therefore canon.

Agree on that dbs manga and anime are not canon, but I would add the movies to this list; in the movies, unlike in DB manga, the final revisions and product is made by Toei, not Toriyama, and not just all the additions to the script to make it a movie, but also some changes and cuts. https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... -toriyama/

We can live whit that the only canon is DB manga and maybe Toriyama's scripts and declarations, say that every official adaption of the script is canon, or use different criteria to decide on what to consider canon or “more canon”.

I personally trust more in Toyotarō to be more faithful to Toriyama's view, since he is a Dragon Ball and Toriyama fanboy, while the movie staff has more commercial worries, let alone the anime staff; so I consider canon the dbs manga, closely followed by the movies.

Revisions are totally based on Toriyama's story tho. Not TOEI's, in the movies.

IDKM As you can read in that interview, the movies, the final products, are just not made by Toriyama in the same grade the original manga was made by him, so if you consider them canon, it has to be a gradual canon (1% or 99%), and the manga/anime would be the same type of canon, of course, with different grades depending on their fidelity to Toriyama's vision and his involvement.

[Miracles]

Agree on that dbs manga and anime are not canon, but I would add the movies to this list; in the movies, unlike in DB manga, the final revisions and product is made by Toei, not Toriyama, and not just all the additions to the script to make it a movie, but also some changes and cuts. https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... -toriyama/

We can live whit that the only canon is DB manga and maybe Toriyama's scripts and declarations, say that every official adaption of the script is canon, or use different criteria to decide on what to consider canon or “more canon”.

I personally trust more in Toyotarō to be more faithful to Toriyama's view, since he is a Dragon Ball and Toriyama fanboy, while the movie staff has more commercial worries, let alone the anime staff; so I consider canon the dbs manga, closely followed by the movies.

Revisions are totally based on Toriyama's story tho. Not TOEI's, in the movies.

IDKM As you can read in that interview, the movies, the final products, are just not made by Toriyama in the same grade the original manga was made by him, so if you consider them canon, it has to be a gradual canon (1% or 99%), and the manga/anime would be the same type of canon, of course, with different grades depending on their fidelity to Toriyama's vision and his involvement.

They can't be gradual authority when Toriyama wrote the entire scripts, TOEI then turns it into a movie, Toriyama even checks those. It's Toriyama's entire dialogue. You even see the Broly director say they stayed wholly faithful to it. Despite cutting out some scenes. Toriyama said what he writes IS Dragonball, no one else.

[Miracles]

have been confirmed to be canon in the manga
https://twitter.com/JaredHendrix6/statu ... 3085258752



it could be ... in the original manga but not currently
the scripts are not only made by toriyama but also by toei
many characters are from toei kale, dyspo, kefla and toppo etc
many transformations are the idea of toei SSBE, SSBKK and ikari they are also involved

No, Toriyama writes the entire scripts for the movie. TOEI has to turn that script into a movie.

but it is not the case of the stories that are not in the movies

That's why the manga/anime are non canon.
The movies and Toriyama's "original drafts" that the anime/manga adapt from are canon.

[Tai Lung]

No, Toriyama writes the entire scripts for the movie. TOEI has to turn that script into a movie.

but it is not the case of the stories that are not in the movies

That's why the manga/anime are non canon.
The movies and Toriyama's "original drafts" that the anime/manga adapt from are canon.

you realize that toppo, kefla, dyspo, anilaza and various characters were created by toei in addition to various transformations with that toei is already intervening in the original scripts

even in the movies current ... gogeta and broly were created by toei and you have no proof that toriyama was the one who created the ikari transformation

[Miracles]

but it is not the case of the stories that are not in the movies

That's why the manga/anime are non canon.
The movies and Toriyama's "original drafts" that the anime/manga adapt from are canon.

you realize that toppo, kefla, dyspo, anilaza and various characters were created by toei in addition to various transformations with that toei is already intervening in the original scripts

even in the movies current ... gogeta and broly were created by toei and you have no proof that toriyama was the one who created the ikari transformation

Wow, Shintani stated they added only Green haired Broly. Toriyama approved it. Just like he approved the other characters you named.
Anyways it doesn't matter because none of that takes away from Toriyama's narration. Which are fully his in the movies.

[Tai Lung]

That's why the manga/anime are non canon.
The movies and Toriyama's "original drafts" that the anime/manga adapt from are canon.

you realize that toppo, kefla, dyspo, anilaza and various characters were created by toei in addition to various transformations with that toei is already intervening in the original scripts

even in the movies current ... gogeta and broly were created by toei and you have no proof that toriyama was the one who created the ikari transformation

Wow, Shintani stated they added only Green haired Broly. Toriyama approved it. Just like he approved the other characters you named.

is the only thing that needs something to be canon the approval of the original author
boruto is canon but kishimoto is not involved in almost anything

Anyways it doesn't matter because none of that takes away from Toriyama's narration. Which are fully his in the movies.

and who decided? because you are imposing a rule to determine the canon and this is not how things work and toriyama's narration was built with ideas and concepts not created by him in contribution to the director naganime
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2019/02/13/n ... -shintani/

[Miracles]

you realize that toppo, kefla, dyspo, anilaza and various characters were created by toei in addition to various transformations with that toei is already intervening in the original scripts

even in the movies current ... gogeta and broly were created by toei and you have no proof that toriyama was the one who created the ikari transformation

Wow, Shintani stated they added only Green haired Broly. Toriyama approved it. Just like he approved the other characters you named.

is the only thing that needs something to be canon the approval of the original author
boruto is canon but kishimoto is not involved in almost anything

Anyways it doesn't matter because none of that takes away from Toriyama's narration. Which are fully his in the movies.

and who decided? because you are imposing a rule to determine the canon and this is not how things work and toriyama's narration was built with ideas and concepts not created by him in contribution to the director naganime
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2019/02/13/n ... -shintani/

Spoiler:

The only time I spoke with [Toriyama] directly was at the film’s screening number zero (an initial private screening for staff members), so I actually didn’t consult with him at all before starting production on it. So I took his script itself as his message saying, “just do it right.” When I was in charge of the Dr. Slump: Dr. Mashirito and Abale-chan film, I created an animated version that didn’t leave out even a single panel of his original work, and it was my personal mission to use that same method this time around, trying not to change lines or add things if possible. However, realistically speaking, I had to make everything fit into a 100 minute timeframe, so… there were lines like, “Yes, Lord Freeza” where I would cut off the “Yes” and leave it as just “Lord Freeza” (laughs), and I shaved off small bits here and there. It couldn’t be too jam-packed though; it needed room to breathe, and I took care to make sure the overall mood of his script remained, along with leaving his nuances and Toriyama-isms intact as much as possible. That was what I felt was the best way to handle his screenplay, and I went about creating the film with that in mind.

The link you posted proves my point. Nagamine left what Toriyama wrote in "his screenplay".
Only editing irrelevant scenes so it can fit into the time slot.

[Tai Lung]

Wow, Shintani stated they added only Green haired Broly. Toriyama approved it. Just like he approved the other characters you named.

is the only thing that needs something to be canon the approval of the original author
boruto is canon but kishimoto is not involved in almost anything

Anyways it doesn't matter because none of that takes away from Toriyama's narration. Which are fully his in the movies.

and who decided? because you are imposing a rule to determine the canon and this is not how things work and toriyama's narration was built with ideas and concepts not created by him in contribution to the director naganime
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2019/02/13/n ... -shintani/

Spoiler:

The only time I spoke with [Toriyama] directly was at the film’s screening number zero (an initial private screening for staff members), so I actually didn’t consult with him at all before starting production on it. So I took his script itself as his message saying, “just do it right.” When I was in charge of the Dr. Slump: Dr. Mashirito and Abale-chan film, I created an animated version that didn’t leave out even a single panel of his original work, and it was my personal mission to use that same method this time around, trying not to change lines or add things if possible. However, realistically speaking, I had to make everything fit into a 100 minute timeframe, so… there were lines like, “Yes, Lord Freeza” where I would cut off the “Yes” and leave it as just “Lord Freeza” (laughs), and I shaved off small bits here and there. It couldn’t be too jam-packed though; it needed room to breathe, and I took care to make sure the overall mood of his script remained, along with leaving his nuances and Toriyama-isms intact as much as possible. That was what I felt was the best way to handle his screenplay, and I went about creating the film with that in mind.

The link you posted proves my point. Nagamine left what Toriyama wrote in "his screenplay".
Only editing irrelevant scenes so it can fit into the time slot.

will depend on what he considers irrelevant
things like the ikari transformation are basically the ssj4 which is not even the author's idea but if the scriptwriters of toei
and the fact that they said they had to cut multiple scenes as it was too long is no longer an irrelevant change

and still you prove your point things are not so I already explained and used examples in other series

[Miracles]

is the only thing that needs something to be canon the approval of the original author
boruto is canon but kishimoto is not involved in almost anything



and who decided? because you are imposing a rule to determine the canon and this is not how things work and toriyama's narration was built with ideas and concepts not created by him in contribution to the director naganime
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2019/02/13/n ... -shintani/

Spoiler:

The only time I spoke with [Toriyama] directly was at the film’s screening number zero (an initial private screening for staff members), so I actually didn’t consult with him at all before starting production on it. So I took his script itself as his message saying, “just do it right.” When I was in charge of the Dr. Slump: Dr. Mashirito and Abale-chan film, I created an animated version that didn’t leave out even a single panel of his original work, and it was my personal mission to use that same method this time around, trying not to change lines or add things if possible. However, realistically speaking, I had to make everything fit into a 100 minute timeframe, so… there were lines like, “Yes, Lord Freeza” where I would cut off the “Yes” and leave it as just “Lord Freeza” (laughs), and I shaved off small bits here and there. It couldn’t be too jam-packed though; it needed room to breathe, and I took care to make sure the overall mood of his script remained, along with leaving his nuances and Toriyama-isms intact as much as possible. That was what I felt was the best way to handle his screenplay, and I went about creating the film with that in mind.

The link you posted proves my point. Nagamine left what Toriyama wrote in "his screenplay".
Only editing irrelevant scenes so it can fit into the time slot.

will depend on what he considers irrelevant
things like the ikari transformation are basically the ssj4 which is not even the author's idea but if the scriptwriters of toei
and the fact that they said they had to cut multiple scenes as it was too long is no longer an irrelevant change

and still you prove your point things are not so I already explained and used examples in other series

You didn't prove the movies are not canon since they are solely written by Toriyama. TOEI asking Toriyama for character forms doesn't change this fact. Toriyama himself states what he writes IS Dragonball. That's why he REWROTE TOEI's entire script of BoG. It was not the world of Dragonball according to him, stated by Toriyama.

you can't say the movies are not canon when the Author himself states what he writes is ACTUALLY Dragonball only.

[Tai Lung]

Spoiler:

The only time I spoke with [Toriyama] directly was at the film’s screening number zero (an initial private screening for staff members), so I actually didn’t consult with him at all before starting production on it. So I took his script itself as his message saying, “just do it right.” When I was in charge of the Dr. Slump: Dr. Mashirito and Abale-chan film, I created an animated version that didn’t leave out even a single panel of his original work, and it was my personal mission to use that same method this time around, trying not to change lines or add things if possible. However, realistically speaking, I had to make everything fit into a 100 minute timeframe, so… there were lines like, “Yes, Lord Freeza” where I would cut off the “Yes” and leave it as just “Lord Freeza” (laughs), and I shaved off small bits here and there. It couldn’t be too jam-packed though; it needed room to breathe, and I took care to make sure the overall mood of his script remained, along with leaving his nuances and Toriyama-isms intact as much as possible. That was what I felt was the best way to handle his screenplay, and I went about creating the film with that in mind.

The link you posted proves my point. Nagamine left what Toriyama wrote in "his screenplay".
Only editing irrelevant scenes so it can fit into the time slot.

will depend on what he considers irrelevant
things like the ikari transformation are basically the ssj4 which is not even the author's idea but if the scriptwriters of toei
and the fact that they said they had to cut multiple scenes as it was too long is no longer an irrelevant change

and still you prove your point things are not so I already explained and used examples in other series

You didn't prove the movies are not canon since they are solely written by Toriyama. TOEI asking Toriyama for character forms doesn't change this fact. Toriyama himself states what he writes IS Dragonball. That's why he REWROTE TOEI's entire script of BoG. It was not the world of Dragonball according to him, stated by Toriyama.

you can't say the movies are not canon when the Author himself states what he writes is ACTUALLY Dragonball only.

which was never my intention .. only I say that you logic is wrong .... DBZ Kakarot have toriyama participation but it are not canon
which is not always like this ... toriyama had the idea that tagoma had a more important role in the battle on earth but that only came to be fulfilled in the series due to lack of time
if the toei staff had not suggested to broly the movie would not have existed ... that the author works in contribution is a fact no matter how much he adds most of the narration

[Miracles]

will depend on what he considers irrelevant
things like the ikari transformation are basically the ssj4 which is not even the author's idea but if the scriptwriters of toei
and the fact that they said they had to cut multiple scenes as it was too long is no longer an irrelevant change

and still you prove your point things are not so I already explained and used examples in other series

You didn't prove the movies are not canon since they are solely written by Toriyama. TOEI asking Toriyama for character forms doesn't change this fact. Toriyama himself states what he writes IS Dragonball. That's why he REWROTE TOEI's entire script of BoG. It was not the world of Dragonball according to him, stated by Toriyama.

you can't say the movies are not canon when the Author himself states what he writes is ACTUALLY Dragonball only.

which was never my intention .. only I say that you logic is wrong .... DBZ Kakarot have toriyama participation but it are not canon
which is not always like this ... toriyama had the idea that tagoma had a more important role in the battle on earth but that only came to be fulfilled in the series due to lack of time
if the toei staff had not suggested to broly the movie would not have existed ... that the author works in contribution is a fact no matter how much he adds most of the narration

The movies are the only canon because Toriyama wrote the entire scripts himself. He didn't write the entire stories for the anime/manga. The anime and manga were adapted [by TOEI/Toyotaro] from Toriyama's "original drafts." UNLIKE the movies, whose scripts were written by Toriyama himself.

[Matches Malone]

The movies are the only canon because Toriyama wrote the entire scripts himself.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how can that work ? RF ends with Freeza dying, yet is alive in Broly due to the events of the TOP. A more logical way to look at things (which you may be and I missed it) is the movies being canon, alongside the scripts provided to Toei and Toyotaro for Super, which we'll probably never see.

[Tai Lung]

You didn't prove the movies are not canon since they are solely written by Toriyama. TOEI asking Toriyama for character forms doesn't change this fact. Toriyama himself states what he writes IS Dragonball. That's why he REWROTE TOEI's entire script of BoG. It was not the world of Dragonball according to him, stated by Toriyama.

you can't say the movies are not canon when the Author himself states what he writes is ACTUALLY Dragonball only.

which was never my intention .. only I say that you logic is wrong .... DBZ Kakarot have toriyama participation but it are not canon
which is not always like this ... toriyama had the idea that tagoma had a more important role in the battle on earth but that only came to be fulfilled in the series due to lack of time
if the toei staff had not suggested to broly the movie would not have existed ... that the author works in contribution is a fact no matter how much he adds most of the narration

The movies are the only canon because Toriyama wrote the entire scripts himself. He didn't write the entire stories for the anime/manga. The anime and manga were adapted [by TOEI/Toyotaro] from Toriyama's "original drafts." UNLIKE the movies, whose scripts were written by Toriyama himself.

you don't have how to prove that ... because toei influences his ideas and original script gogeta, broly, ikari, legendary super saiyan, paragus and the appearance of tournament characters

all these characters and transformations are somehow important in the story that the author is forming in contribution

[Miracles]

The movies are the only canon because Toriyama wrote the entire scripts himself.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how can that work ? RF ends with Freeza dying, yet is alive in Broly due to the events of the TOP. A more logical way to look at things (which you may be and I missed it) is the movies being canon, alongside the scripts provided to Toei and Toyotaro for Super, which we'll probably never see.

Yes, I've stated that the movies and "Toriyama's original drafts" are the only canon. Since the anime and manga adapt from these.

which was never my intention .. only I say that you logic is wrong .... DBZ Kakarot have toriyama participation but it are not canon
which is not always like this ... toriyama had the idea that tagoma had a more important role in the battle on earth but that only came to be fulfilled in the series due to lack of time
if the toei staff had not suggested to broly the movie would not have existed ... that the author works in contribution is a fact no matter how much he adds most of the narration

The movies are the only canon because Toriyama wrote the entire scripts himself. He didn't write the entire stories for the anime/manga. The anime and manga were adapted [by TOEI/Toyotaro] from Toriyama's "original drafts." UNLIKE the movies, whose scripts were written by Toriyama himself.

you don't have how to prove that ... because toei influences his ideas and original script gogeta, broly, ikari, legendary super saiyan, paragus and the appearance of tournament characters

all these characters and transformations are somehow important in the story that the author is forming in contribution

Doesn't take away from the fact that it's Toriyama's written story. Therefore the movies are the only canon.