Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 33 - DB episode 146-150

[Robo4900]

Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 33 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

We're on the home stretch of OG DB now. Of course, that separation is mostly arbitrary, but still...
We may have gone overboard with the trivia this week.

Previous thread: Week 32 (DB 141-145)
Next thread: Week 34 (DB 151-153 & Z 1-2)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 146 - Son Goku’s Trap
Dub title: Goku's Trap
Originally aired 22nd of February 1989
Episode director: Minoru Okazaki
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda

Ma Junior has become as big as a mountain. But Goku had been waiting for this!! Invading Ma Junior’s body through the mouth, Goku rescues God from the bottle that Ma Junior had swallowed! Ma Junior returns to his original size, and the battle recommences. Goku stops God when he offers his assistance, saying that he has seen through Ma Junior’s technique. True to his word, he evades the energy bullet that Ma Junior fired, and it damages Ma Junior instead!! Furious, Ma Junior brings out his final gamble…!!

Anime-only/filler content: No significant filler

Episode 147 - It’s All Over!!
Dub title: Goku Hangs On (Funimation) / Hanging On (Blue Water)
Originally aired 1st of March 1989
Episode director: Kazuhisa Takenouchi
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama

After gathering a stupendous ki, Ma Junior fires his final technique, the Chō-Bakuretsu-Maha. It had enough force to reduce the surroundings to rubble, but Goku toughs it out and counterattacks! His Kamehameha hits Ma Junior head-on!! It looked like the match was over, but as the referee counts to 9, all of a sudden Ma Junior revives and fires a ray from his mouth, piercing Goku through the chest!! It fortunately misses his vital spots, and after Goku stands up, the thoroughly wounded pair stare each other down!!

Anime-only/filler content: The extended sequence of whirlwinds and the ground breaking apart.

Episode 148 - Hooray! The World’s Strongest Man
Dub title: The Victor
Originally aired 8th of March 1989
Episode director: Osamu Kasai
Animation supervisor: Katsumi Aoshima

Goku’s movement is slowed due to his intense blood loss. After wounding both of Goku’s hands and feet, paralyzing him, Ma Junior fires an energy bullet!! With Goku having completely vanished, Ma Junior assumes that his body has been blown to smithereens. At that moment Goku, who had used Bukūjutsu to escape, body slams Ma Junior and sends him flying!! It’s Goku’s victory!! Goku heals with a senzu, and gives Piccolo a senzu as well, vowing to fight him again. And thus, turning down God’s offer to succeed him, he flies off with Chi-Chi!!

Anime-only/filler content: No significant filler

Episode 149 - The Wedding Dress In Flames
Dub title: Dress in Flames (Funimation) / A Wedding Dress In Flames! (Blue Water)
Originally aired 15th of March 1989
Episode director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Mitsuo Shindō

Once Goku and Chi-Chi reach Gyūmaō’s castle, Gyūmaō shows the wedding dress that is Chi-Chi’s keepsake from her mother. But all of a sudden, tongues of fire spring up and trap Gyūmaō inside the castle!! Seeking the Bashō Fan, the pair consults Uranai Baba, and they soon arrive at Oolong’s hometown, Octagon Village. While Goku scouts out the area, the perverted villagers suggest to Chi-Chi that she bath in the hot springs. But Goku pulls out the hot spring’s plug, and a stone pillar engraved with the method of creating the Bashō Fan appears!! Uranai Baba says that she saw this diagram at Kame House.

Anime-only/filler content: Filler arc

Episode 150 - The Phantom Fire-Eating Bird
Dub title: The Fire-Eater
Originally aired 22nd of March 1989
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Tomekichi Takeuchi

Goku and Chi-Chi learn from a book at Kame House that the Bashō Fan is made from the feathers of the Fire-Eating Bird that lives in Mt. Kiui. After going straight to the mountain, inside a cave they meet an elderly scientist who is trying to incubate the Fire-Eating Bird’s egg. Pilaf and his gang appear, having their sights on the egg, but they run away when they see Goku. The Fire-Eating Bird then appears, and flies off after hatching its chick from the egg. But its all-important feather is soon wiped out. It turns out that the book was just a bunch of codswallop. At the elderly scientist’s advice, Goku and Chi-Chi head north!!

Anime-only/filler content: Filler arc

-

Interesting trivia:

• At this point in time in the manga, Goku is wished back to life as the Saiyans arrive a month early, Yamcha is killed by the Saibamen and Krillin kills them all in retaliation.
• When Chapter 187 was first published in Weekly Shonen Jump, the title page was mislabeled as Chapter 137 rather than 187. this was corrected for the Tankobon version.
• Bulma freaks out at the sight of God because she wasn't present for Goku's explaination about him and Ma-Junior.
• In the first panel of Chapter 189, the ring is rectangular, when usually it's a perfect square.
• In Chapter 192, the first panel of the second page gives Goku his right wristband, despite him removing them in the middle of his match with Tenshinhan 15 chapters earlier.
• A single panel in the manga depicts Ma-Junior's explosion on Papaya Island, the only time it's shown in full in either the manga or the anime.
• The final panel of Chapter 192 and the first of 193 are the same (Goku getting pierced with Ma-Junior's beam).
• The Funimation dub for Episode 148 completely blurs over the revalation that Goku learned how to fly. Tenshinhan and Krillin say "Do it, Goku!!" in unison rather than "The flying technique!". This infuriates KBABZ to no end. Robo's own disappointment comes in from Blue Water also fudging this one; their version of this line was "He's still fighting?!"
• Goku being given a Senzu Bean could also have been done by Kuririn, Yamucha or Tenshinhan.
• The title for Chapter 194 is Gift of the Dragon Balls. This is the same name as a Kikuchi music cue for the show (the one that plays during Goku's Chi-Chi flashback).
• Kuririn doesn't appear to know that Senzu Beans heal you, despite Chapter 169/Episode 135 showing he brought them with him after Goku explained how they work.
• In Chapter 194, God restores Goku's gi after the battle. In the Saiyan Arc, Piccolo would also show a penchant for generating clothes. (Plus a sword!)
• In the second-to-last panel you can see Chichi gripping Kinto'un, showing she is still able to ride it.
• At the end of Chapter 194, Roshi pops in and tells the viewer that it's certainly not the end. This is likely because the story had reflected on the totality of the adventures thus far, with a title page of the original Dragon Ball Gang, both making it feel like the end of it all. A similar gag happens in the anime.
• Goku has the Nyoi-Bo again in the Wedding Dress arc, for some reason.
• In the wide shot of Gyuumao's village, you can see the remains of Fire Mountain surrounded it from when Roshi blew it up seven and a half years prior.
• This is the first time Gyuumao is depicted in his revised appearance with a fitted shirt and pants. He'll retain this look for the remainder of the franchise. His old outfit is shown on a background painting in the scene where he practices the lines for his speech.
• Gyumao's dialogue suggests that he didn't know Chichi had gone to the Tenkaichi Budoukai. This is odd because her fighting style suggests he trained her himself.
• Gyuumao's dialogue implies that Goku got his eating habits from Grandpa Gohan, not his Saiyan biology (which would have been known via the manga by the time this episode was written).
• The explaination for Chichi's mother's death is never explained in either the manga or anime. In the Daizenshuu, it's stated she died of an illness.
• The Basho Fan was never actually shown in the series before this point. The design in this arc isn't a fabrication however: it's taken from the original title page of Chapter 13, which depicts Roshi holding it. In the 2013 Full Colors, it was matched with the anime's depiction in this arc.
• At the town Goku, Chichi, and Baba fly to, they have a "Wel come" sign . This pre-dates an identical case with the Check-In Station's sign in the manga by 14 years, which had originally said "Well come" until the Kanzenban corrected it in 2003.
• It appears Shu has gotten a new outfit! Goku of course borrowed his previous one for the length of his Worldly Training.
• Turtle taking a while to figure out that it's Goku is understandable: the last time they saw each other was in the Red Ribbon Army arc six years prior.
• This is also the second time Goku and Chichi have arrived at Kame House as a pair.
• Turtle clarifies that Roshi threw out the Basho fan several hundreds of years ago. Roshi neglected to mention this detail, which also confirms Roshi's advanced age.
• Goku and Chichi are respectful enough to have removed their shoes after entering Kame House.
• As they leave Kame House, Goku and Chichi encounter a pod of dolphins. This may be a reference to them having to ask a dolphin for directions the first time they had to go to Kame House.
• The Pilaf Gang seem to forget this meeting with the grown-up Goku by the time of GT, as Pilaf only remembers him as a kid, and Mai notes that he's got a lot bigger since they last saw him.
• The Fire-Eating Bird is a filler character known to have been designed by Toriyama.
• Goku's Kamehameha at the end of Episode 150 has sparks of electricity jump between his palms, which hasn't happened before this point.
• As Kanzenshuu note in their pages for each chapter of Dragon Ball, "Each issue of Weekly Shōnen Jump features short comments from the various series’ authors, giving fans a brief insight into their current thoughts, ranging from series-related announcements to trivial happenings in their personal lives." Since a lot of these tend to be little blurbs about what Toriyama has been up to this week, we've tended to ignore them for this trivia section. However, his blurb on chapter 193, the penultimate chapter of the 23rd Tenkaichi arc, is rather neat:

  The new storyline’s contents are pretty much settled, but I haven’t done the designs and such yet. But I end up goofing off. <Akira>

  Doesn't sound like the Saiyan arc was quite as "written by the seat of his pants" as many would assume, eh?

BONUS ROUND: Journey To The West-related trivia
It's well-known that Dragon Ball has strong Journey to the West influences, so the section below details the various ways in which it draws inspiration from the famous work. Most of this information comes from Episode 249 of Kanzenshuu: The Podcast, so please give that a listen if you want to learn more!

• Toriyama initially started the story as a pastiche or twisted take on Journey to the West; the entertainment was drawn from how Dragon Ball was different from the source material, like Bulma showing up in a Porsche (Goku peeing all the time however, is not this). Toriyama figured it'd be easier to write the story this way, but got bored with it and moved on (the Tournament arcs were inspired by how popular that format was in Dr. Slump). The main influence of Journey to the West past the opening arc is the story having strong wuxia elements, particularly the way the characters fight.
• The story of JttW is that of four pilgrims travelling West from China to India to acquire some buddhist scriptures to help spread its word to China. As a nod to this the Daizenshuu map lays out the landmarks from this arc such that they'd have to travel West.
• The Dragon Balls themselves are not from Journey to the West, but instead the eight pearls in Hakkenden. Toriyama subtracted one out of respect to make seven (Sonic only did this for Sonic 1). This is a big structural difference: In JttW the scriptures are in one place they're trying to get to, while in Dragon Ball they're scattered around the world.
• Goku is inpired by one of the main characters, Sun Wukong, the Handsome Monkey King; Son Goku is literally the Japanese reading of the name Sun Wukong (its literal meaning is roughly "He who is the master of understanding the emptiness". To this end, the popular Arhur Waley translation of the story, Monkey, actually renders Sun Wukong as "Aware-of-Vacuity"), one of the many names Monkey takes on over the course of the story (such as "The Great Sage, Equal of Heaven"). Goku's monkey tail and Oozaru form are nods to this, and when drafting the story Goku was much closer to Monkey's appearance. Both have a tendency to make innocent comments that upset people, sometimes getting them into fights (which they immensely enjoy, and have a great talent for).
• The Nyoi-Bo is inspired by the Ruyi Jingu Bang, or Compliant Golden-Hooped Rod. Both obey their weilder to extend and shrink on command, and also match the preferred length; Nyoi-bo grew longer when Goku became an adult, and Jingu Bang shortened when Monkey asked of it. Notably, Jingu Bang could also change its thickness as well as length; Monkey kept it tucked behind his ear like a needle. It was also VERY heavy.
• Kinto'un is based off of Monkey's Somersault Cloud technique, and both are taught/given to them by their first master. Unlike Kinto'Un, the Somersault Cloud doesn't enable true flight, instead allowing enormous jumps, as suggested by the name.
• Oolong is based on a pig-man character sometimes named Pigsy, who was punished for past sins by being reborn as a pig. Oolong of course is able to transform into many forms but has to revert to a pig after five minutes.
• Yamucha is more vaguely based on a Kappa, a water monster found in a river. While there are no obvious correlations, in the manga he's met in Diablo Desert shortly after the incident on the river; in the anime these two events are in the same episode.
• Bulma is based on Tripitaka the monk, both of which spend most of their time whining, held captive or both, and both serve as the figure the others follow on the quest (with the Monkey being the bodyguard). Many Japanese adaptations of JttW flip the monk's gender, so Toriyama doing it isn't entirely unique.
• Mount Frypan, the only Toriyama-written Dragon Ball story taken directly from Journey to the West, is inspired by a Fire Mountain adventure, although in JttW it's a direct obstacle. This story is where the Basho Fan comes from: in JttW it's used to put out the fire, while in Dragon Ball Roshi threw it out using it as a pot holder and spilling soup on it. Its function changing depending on how many times you swing it is from JttW too. However, in JttW it's a story that takes place before Monkey's journey with Tripitaka begins. We went into more detail on this story specifically back in the trivia in Week 2.
• The Ox Demon King, of course, inspired Gyuumao, a straight translation of the name. In JttW he's a very bull-like man, which is why Gyuumao always wears a horned helmet. He's also an early friend of the Monkey King, likely why Gyuumao was friends with Grandpa Gohan.
• The anime meanwhile would on two seperate instances draw from Journey to the West for filler stories, once for a specific episode and then again for a full filler storyline.
• The two brothers, Golden Horn and Silver Hown, use a magical gourd that sucks people inside and dissolves them, both from JttW. However in JttW, you're sucked in if you DO respond to your name, even if it's a fake one you've attributed to yourself, as Monkey discovers. Goku fools the brothers accidentally by peeing in it (which makes the sound of sloshing water), while Monkey fakes exclaiming that he's dissolving. The village in danger and all that are an invention of Dragon Ball.
• Before the Magical Gourd episode, Goku ironically is told by Roshi to go East, not West.
• The Wedding Dress arc storyline takes various elements from Journey to the West. The Basho Fan is brought to put out another blaze at Fire Mountain, once again like the original incident. The idea that it makes the flames worse is also from Journey to the West, where the first fan Monkey is given is a fake. The reasons why they don't work however are completely different.
• The Furnace of Eight Trigrams, the Five Elements (or Phases), and Taijou Roukun are all from Journey to the West. In Dragon Ball however they're effectively just name-drops: they share no actual relation to their equivalents in JttW. The entire rest of the storyline is practically identical to the original Fire Mountain incident in JttW.
• Goku making a rude comment to Annin and getting attacked over is similar to Monkey often doing it in JttW.
• There are many other elements of Dragon Ball that could be seen as references to JttW, including Goku coming to earth in a sperical, rock-like pod (Monkey was born from a rock), or Bulma's "piggy pill" being similar to how Tripitaka forces Monkey to help her with a headband.

Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and Dragon Ball logo provided, and trivia co-written, by KBABZ.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

The scene in ep 148 where Goku reveals he knows the Flying Technique/Bukujutsu is awesome and slamming into Piccolo Jr. is so satisfying to see with this finally being his long hoped definite victory in the Budokai given how down to the wire and close his defeats at the previous two were. That part at the end where Goku does the akanbe/bii-da face after turning down God/Kami's proposal to succeed him in the Upper Worls before flying off with Chi-Chi is so hilarious, just something about making a childish taunting gesture at a high divine being feels like something Goku would do because he's still got that off beat child-like sense even with being a grown man now and it never really leaves him although of course it's toned down to some extent much later in the series.

Notes:

I believe unless i'm mistaken that this is the first mention of Kami and Piccolo's lives being linked and the death of one would cause the other's passing.

As to the note about Pilaf, Mai and Shu not remembering their encounter with Goku as an adult here when happening upon him again in GT, i'm guessing it's possible that the series' writers likely disregarded or didn't take the Wedding Dress arc's episodes where they appear into account due to them being purely filler material thus making it seem as though they hadn't seen him at all since he was still a kid as their previous non filler appearance anime wise was during the Piccolo Daimao arc.

[KBABZ]

As to the note about Pilaf, Mai and Shu not remembering their encounter with Goku as an adult here when happening upon him again in GT, i'm guessing it's possible that the series' writers likely disregarded or didn't take the Wedding Dress arc's episodes where they appear into account due to them being purely filler material thus making it seem as though they hadn't seen him at all since he was still a kid as their previous non filler appearance anime wise was during the Piccolo Daimao arc.

I find this outlook to be a bit odd because, by its very nature, GT is also filler.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

As to the note about Pilaf, Mai and Shu not remembering their encounter with Goku as an adult here when happening upon him again in GT, i'm guessing it's possible that the series' writers likely disregarded or didn't take the Wedding Dress arc's episodes where they appear into account due to them being purely filler material thus making it seem as though they hadn't seen him at all since he was still a kid as their previous non filler appearance anime wise was during the Piccolo Daimao arc.

I find this outlook to be a bit odd because, by its very nature, GT is also filler.

True GT is filler being an anime exclusive sequel series but i don't know, i had just found it kind of weird that was omitted later when in the original DB series they had in fact encountered Goku as an adult during those episodes. Who knows??? Maybe it was simply an oversight or something on the production end or it could simply be interpreted or even retconned in universe that the Pilaf gang just forgot they had previously met him again then.

[Robo4900]

As to the note about Pilaf, Mai and Shu not remembering their encounter with Goku as an adult here when happening upon him again in GT, i'm guessing it's possible that the series' writers likely disregarded or didn't take the Wedding Dress arc's episodes where they appear into account due to them being purely filler material thus making it seem as though they hadn't seen him at all since he was still a kid as their previous non filler appearance anime wise was during the Piccolo Daimao arc.

I find this outlook to be a bit odd because, by its very nature, GT is also filler.

True GT is filler with being an anime exclusive sequel series but i don't know, i had just found it kind of weird that was omitted later when in the original DB series they had in fact encountered Goku as an adult during those episodes. Who knows??? Maybe it was simply an oversight or something on the production end or it could simply be interpreted or even retconned in universe that the Pilaf gang just forgot they had previously met him again then.

It's almost certainly just an oversight. GT tended to take filler as having happened (it even referenced a couple of the movies IIRC).

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I find this outlook to be a bit odd because, by its very nature, GT is also filler.

True GT is filler with being an anime exclusive sequel series but i don't know, i had just found it kind of weird that was omitted later when in the original DB series they had in fact encountered Goku as an adult during those episodes. Who knows??? Maybe it was simply an oversight or something on the production end or it could simply be interpreted or even retconned in universe that the Pilaf gang just forgot they had previously met him again then.

It's almost certainly just an oversight. GT tended to take filler as having happened (it even referenced a couple of the movies IIRC).

Yes, i mean you have things such as Z movie villain characters like Tullece and Coola showing up during the Super 17 episodes even when the films don't really line up with the series continuity wise much if at all. I wouldn't be surprised if the show's writers had just forgotten about those episodes when it came to that bit in GT ep 1 where Goku encounters the Pilaf gang in the temple before he accidentally gets wished back to a child again.

[Robo4900]

True GT is filler with being an anime exclusive sequel series but i don't know, i had just found it kind of weird that was omitted later when in the original DB series they had in fact encountered Goku as an adult during those episodes. Who knows??? Maybe it was simply an oversight or something on the production end or it could simply be interpreted or even retconned in universe that the Pilaf gang just forgot they had previously met him again then.

It's almost certainly just an oversight. GT tended to take filler as having happened (it even referenced a couple of the movies IIRC).

Yes, i mean you have things such as Z movie villain characters like Tullece and Coola showing up during the Super 17 episodes even when the films don't really line up with the series continuity wise much if at all. I wouldn't be surprised if the show's writers had just forgotten about those episodes when it came to that bit in GT ep 1 where Goku encounters the Pilaf gang in the temple before he accidentally gets wished back to a child again.

Yep. My thinking exactly.

[MasenkoHA]

It’s funny that there’s an in-universe reason for why Goku stopped using his Nyoi Bo, its being used to connect Karin Tower to God’s Lookout. But the anime forgot this I guess and he’s still using it in the wedding dress arc and the first two Z movies.

The 23rd Budokai is actually a great way to end the series. Goku left home to train and become stronger and now he’s officially the strongest man on earth! He’s also keeping Piccolo around to keep him on his toes thus alleviating Roshi’s fear that once Goku won a tournament he would stop training. I know some fans like to argue that Toriyama introducing aliens made the following arc feel like a brand new series but honestly it was a pretty natural follow up. If Goku’s the strongest man on earth how else do you provide a conflict? By introducing fighters across the universe far stronger than him.

The Wedding Dress arc....isn’t very good. It just feels like Toei needed to kill 5 weeks to prep for Z. I pretty much consider episode 148 to be the first anime series proper finale and usually skip over this arc.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The fight with Piccolo Jr was enormously satisfying. Goku just wouldn't give in, even when he was left in excruciating pain.

I also quite like the wedding dress filler arc. Nice little side quest for Goku and Chi-Chi.

[MyVisionity]

Overall this is way too dramatic for my liking, but I guess it works as a climax of sorts. I don't think that Dragon Ball ever becomes quite as dramatic again however.

I thought Tenshinhan's Kikoho and everybody getting inside the hole was funny.

I like that God is still a bit shady and flawed. It makes sense that Piccolo Daimao's other half wouldn't exactly be squeaky clean.

There are worse filler episodes than these. I enjoy this arc to a degree. It makes sense that Goku and Chichi would have to face some kind of trial together as newlyweds before they officially married. I think they make a good team and it's a shame that we never see them on any more adventures together after this.

I appreciate the village of perverted pigs that Oolong apparently hails from.

[Matches Malone]

What a phenomenal arc. As much as I love the previous 2 tournaments, this is easily the best one. Goku vs Piccolo is in my top 3 fights, but I can see why some say it's their #1, as it has everything I expect in a fight and more. Having Goku lose his first 2 tournaments was a smart move, as it makes him finally winning here extremely satisfying. With that said, it's time to finally move into what I consider to not only be the best parts of DB, but Shonen in general, the Saiyan and Namek arcs.

[ArmenianPepsi]

The Wedding Dress arc....isn’t very good. It just feels like Toei needed to kill 5 weeks to prep for Z. I pretty much consider episode 148 to be the first anime series proper finale and usually skip over this arc.

Compared to the other filler arcs, i'd take the Wedding Dress episodes over the Garlic Jr or Other World Tournament any day

Fine in the end it is still pointless since it's filler material, but you get a neat self contained adventure for what it's worth. You actually get to see Goku and Chichi do something together besides get into comedic quarrel. The Pilaf Gang get one last hurrah (Until GT that is) , even grandpa Gohan get's a sweet cameo.

[Zestanor]

I have never seen these wedding dress episodes before, somehow, so they’re new to me. The last time I watched Z from the start was about ten years ago so it all feels new to me though, honestly, which is cool.

I’m watching without subtitles, so maybe I just interpreted it wrong, but I’m pretty sure Goku gave one if his reasons for healing Piccolo that if he left him there, he would die, and so God would die. I had totally forgotten that, and it actually makes a lot of sense.

[Matches Malone]

I find this outlook to be a bit odd because, by its very nature, GT is also filler.

The term "filler" is used to describe arcs and episodes that are written to give an author time to get ahead of the manga, which isn't the case with GT, so it can't be categorized as filler. GT is its own show that aired well after the manga's conclusion, so it wasn't filling time for anything.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I find this outlook to be a bit odd because, by its very nature, GT is also filler.

The term "filler" is used to describe arcs and episodes that are written to give an author time to get ahead of the manga, which isn't the case with GT, so it can't be categorized as filler. GT is its own show that aired well after the manga's conclusion, so it wasn't filling time for anything.

Indeed, the manga had finished it's serialization run in Jump just under a year earlier by the time GT premiered.

[KBABZ]

I find this outlook to be a bit odd because, by its very nature, GT is also filler.

The term "filler" is used to describe arcs and episodes that are written to give an author time to get ahead of the manga, which isn't the case with GT, so it can't be categorized as filler. GT is its own show that aired well after the manga's conclusion, so it wasn't filling time for anything.

I guess I have a more negative view on Filler, where it's story that doesn't come from the original source and thus is less valid. To that end it doesn't explicitly have to be stalling for time; for me Filler's most primary facet is that it's not from the manga, with the idea of it stalling for time being a very close second. You can cut out almost all filler and the story would still make sense, which makes filler feel very frivolous and skip-able.

Mind you, my opinion on that has been formed from a perspective VERY much removed from the original broadcast of the anime and publication of the manga, instead coming from the more privileged angle of having the entire story available to view at any time.

---

Speaking of Journey to the West references, I think I found another one in Sleeping Princess! The five giant finger-like mountains where Goku and Krillin visit seem VERY reminiscent from when the Monkey King tried to jump over Buddha's hand but couldn't.

[MyVisionity]

The Wedding Dress arc....isn’t very good. It just feels like Toei needed to kill 5 weeks to prep for Z. I pretty much consider episode 148 to be the first anime series proper finale and usually skip over this arc.

Compared to the other filler arcs, i'd take the Wedding Dress episodes over the Garlic Jr or Other World Tournament any day

Fine in the end it is still pointless since it's filler material, but you get a neat self contained adventure for what it's worth. You actually get to see Goku and Chichi do something together besides get into comedic quarrel. The Pilaf Gang get one last hurrah (Until GT that is) , even grandpa Gohan get's a sweet cameo.

Agreed. The reason the Garlic Junior and Afterlife Tournament arcs don't hold up is probably because they try and tell one single story spread out over multiple episodes, whereas in the earlier filler arcs each episode was one individual story. Toei's strengths with anime-only material may be limited to single-episode plots instead of multi-episode plots.

I also agree about Goku and Chichi. I think they make a great couple, and this arc gets the relationship off to a good start. I also like the inclusion of the Pilaf Gang and Son Gohan because they, along with the Gyuumao/Frypan plot, bring the series back around to the opening arc of DB which is a nice way to close things out.

[ArmenianPepsi]

The Wedding Dress arc....isn’t very good. It just feels like Toei needed to kill 5 weeks to prep for Z. I pretty much consider episode 148 to be the first anime series proper finale and usually skip over this arc.

Compared to the other filler arcs, i'd take the Wedding Dress episodes over the Garlic Jr or Other World Tournament any day

Fine in the end it is still pointless since it's filler material, but you get a neat self contained adventure for what it's worth. You actually get to see Goku and Chichi do something together besides get into comedic quarrel. The Pilaf Gang get one last hurrah (Until GT that is) , even grandpa Gohan get's a sweet cameo.

Agreed. The reason the Garlic Junior and Afterlife Tournament arcs don't hold up is probably because they try and tell one single story spread out over multiple episodes, whereas in the earlier filler arcs each episode was one individual story. Toei's strengths with anime-only material may be limited to single-episode plots instead of multi-episode plots.

I also agree about Goku and Chichi. I think they make a great couple, and this arc gets the relationship off to a good start. I also like the inclusion of the Pilaf Gang and Son Gohan because they, along with the Gyuumao/Frypan plot, bring the series back around to the opening arc of DB which is a nice way to close things out.

Come to think of it, aren't these Wedding Dress episodes the last time we even see Frypan, let alone having character's reference it at all?

[Robo4900]

The Wedding Dress arc....isn’t very good. It just feels like Toei needed to kill 5 weeks to prep for Z. I pretty much consider episode 148 to be the first anime series proper finale and usually skip over this arc.

Compared to the other filler arcs, i'd take the Wedding Dress episodes over the Garlic Jr or Other World Tournament any day

WHAAAAA--?! You don't like the Afterlife Tournament?!...

... Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to rescind your Dragon Ball fan badge.

Fine in the end it is still pointless since it's filler material, but you get a neat self contained adventure for what it's worth. You actually get to see Goku and Chichi do something together besides get into comedic quarrel. The Pilaf Gang get one last hurrah (Until GT that is) , even grandpa Gohan get's a sweet cameo.

I'd argue it's not pointless, though. It doesn't move the "plot" forward, but who cares? Enjoyable stories are enjoyable stories.

The term "filler" is used to describe arcs and episodes that are written to give an author time to get ahead of the manga, which isn't the case with GT, so it can't be categorized as filler. GT is its own show that aired well after the manga's conclusion, so it wasn't filling time for anything.

By a similar logic, none of the "filler" in Dragon Ball prior to roughly the Piccolo arc is actually filler, because Toei was working with the manga having a 2-year lead, so they only really made additions to the anime to make the pacing feel more normal for a TV show (plus they added some setup for Pilaf as the main villain). But, "filler" is a useful shorthand for "Anime-only material", which applies to GT too, so it works. I wouldn't use the terminology like that, but he's not wrong for using it.

[Matches Malone]

"filler" is a useful shorthand for "Anime-only material", which applies to GT too, so it works. I wouldn't use the terminology like that, but he's not wrong for using it.

I might agree if GT was an extension of Z, as in Z 292-355, but it isn't, it's its own separate show from the manga's 2 adaptions.