Dragon Ball Daima Strength Discussion Thread

[Thani]

Yeah I didn't see Goku stomping Tama 3. I saw him using a full power kamehameha on him, Tama 3 actually deflecting it, and then being sucker punched. After that he gives up because, yes, Goku could defeat him, but Goku himself said he could continue fighting no problem.

Tama 3 is not that much weaker than SS2 Goku, imo, just enough to be for sure defeatable by him, which shows why even Dabura couldn't get the dragonball from him.

[ZombieVito]

Yeah I didn't see Goku stomping Tama 3. I saw him using a full power kamehameha on him, Tama 3 actually deflecting it, and then being sucker punched. After that he gives up because, yes, Goku could defeat him, but Goku himself said he could continue fighting no problem.

Tama 3 is not that much weaker than SS2 Goku, imo, just enough to be for sure defeatable by him, which shows why even Dabura couldn't get the dragonball from him.

The Dabura that fought Tamagami 3 was also pre Majin power up.

[Thani]

Yeah I didn't see Goku stomping Tama 3. I saw him using a full power kamehameha on him, Tama 3 actually deflecting it, and then being sucker punched. After that he gives up because, yes, Goku could defeat him, but Goku himself said he could continue fighting no problem.

Tama 3 is not that much weaker than SS2 Goku, imo, just enough to be for sure defeatable by him, which shows why even Dabura couldn't get the dragonball from him.

The Dabura that fought Tamagami 3 was also pre Majin power up.

Very true, but we do not know how much weaker he was before the Majin power up. For him to be compared to Cell, and then remarked as even stronger than thought, he couldn't be weaker than the mastered super saiyans from the Buu arc. He did say that 4.000 kili (Goku's measured power as a super saiyan) was no threat to him, albeit as already a servant of Babidi.

[Almighty Majin]

Magic is a power boost in Dragon Ball. It likely varies from person to person, but that seems to be the implication. Dabura was being compared to Cell before showcased magic in which Goku responded with saying that he is stronger than he thought. We can see this in the fight between Goku and Glorio as well where Goku can keep up with and even overwhelm Glorio in base but needs Super Saiyan to counter Glorio's charged magic attack.

On Dabura, I said this before but I think that Majin Dabura was comparable to Super Perfect Cell + magic while regular Dabura was comparable to Perfect Cell + magic. Makes it simpler to visualize.

[LightBing]

Dabra should be SSJ1 level still, meaning Perfect Cell. Slightly better since magic.

When Goku and Vegeta fight, it fills Boo's energy immediately. It's highlighted that it's because both the Saiyans are SSJ2 level.
This implies Dabra vs Gohan wasn't a SSJ2 level bout.

The biggest cue is of course, Toriyama didn't drew Gohan as SSJ2.
Neither against Dabra or against Majin Boo. Yet Vegeta and Goku are clearly draw with the sparks, sometimes in the following/preceding page as SSJ Gohan, so he didn't forget.

[AtlasFlame18]

This is true if you place all movies in the same dimension, as on top of facing the series villains, they faced the other movie villains too. But if you are one of those people who believe each movie happens in a different place (obligatory remider that no official source supports this)

Toriyama, Koyama & the Daizenshuu have stated at multiple times that the movies happen in separate dimensions from the Manga, Anime, & each other with certain exceptions.

[Cipher]

This all falls right in line with where we'd expect things to be if Dabra couldn't beat the Tamagami; it took SS2 for Goku to do it.

I was worried while watching that the fandom's general tendency to lose its mind when base Goku gets used early in fights for warmup/drama in TV entries that started with GT would rear its head though.

I didn't think there was ever much of a question mark hanging over Dabra—and even less so since Super. He's stronger than Super Saiyans but weaker than early SS2s; just like Perfect Cell at the start of the Cell Games. That's why everyone is confident Gohan can beat him if he just accesses his full strength again. And then Trunks’ fight with him in the Super manga puts any lingering doubts to bed.

Goku's bout with Tamagami 3 aligns perfectly well with that. Especially if you take Bobbidi's power-up off of Dabra, as Goku more or less still had the upper hand as a Super Saiyan (but couldn't end the fight). Then again, the same was true for Gohan against Dabra.

[RandomGuy96]

Oh look, Goku chose to fight a guy he knows is stronger than his base form in his base form, actually did okay, and then somehow still had trouble with the same guy after he transformed into a Super Saiyan, implying his base form was "doing okay" against someone dozens of times stronger.

It's almost like every Toei production ever made does this.

This all falls right in line with where we'd expect things to be if Dabra couldn't beat the Tamagami; it took SS2 for Goku to do it.

I was worried while watching that the fandom's general tendency to lose its mind when base Goku gets used early in fights for warmup/drama in TV entries that started with GT would rear its head though.

This definitely started before GT - earliest example is the second Cooler movie (or even the first).

[dbgtFO]

Oh look, Goku chose to fight a guy he knows is stronger than his base form in his base form, actually did okay, and then somehow still had trouble with the same guy after he transformed into a Super Saiyan, implying his base form was "doing okay" against someone dozens of times stronger.

It's almost like every Toei production ever made does this.

*Insert Morgan Freeman "he's right, you know" meme*
Yeah, it's good ol' Toei video game logic at play here.
The more things change, the more they stay the same, huh.


Well seems like the deaging didn't diminish them to that ridiculous extent some were expecting(including me!) or Goku just mastered his mini form much quicker than others.

Good that Goku needed SS2 to finish the job, it was important. Also I jkst realized he went SS2 as soon as he started charging up the Kamehameha!
On first viewing I just thought he saved it for the elbow to the stomach, but he actually powered up before that.

[JulieYBM]

Super Saiyan 2 in Dragon Ball Daima is continuing the grand tradition set up by Dragon Ball GT of never actually being acknowledged and therefore could just be Super Saiyan with lightning lol. Anyway, I really like that the fight just ended there. Tamagami #3 not needing to know anymore makes the fights feel more varied if he's just willing to say, "Yeah, fine, I don't need you to knock me unconscious" or whatever.

[Mr Baggins]

This all falls right in line with where we'd expect things to be if Dabra couldn't beat the Tamagami; it took SS2 for Goku to do it.

I was worried while watching that the fandom's general tendency to lose its mind when base Goku gets used early in fights for warmup/drama in TV entries that started with GT would rear its head though.

I didn't think there was ever much of a question mark hanging over Dabra—and even less so since Super. He's stronger than Super Saiyans but weaker than early SS2s; just like Perfect Cell at the start of the Cell Games. That's why everyone is confident Gohan can beat him if he just accesses his full strength again. And then Trunks’ fight with him in the Super manga puts any lingering doubts to bed.

Goku's bout with Tamagami 3 aligns perfectly well with that. Especially if you take Bobbidi's power-up off of Dabra, as Goku more or less still had the upper hand as a Super Saiyan (but couldn't end the fight). Then again, the same was true for Gohan against Dabra.

Co-signed.

Of all the nonsensical shit Toei tends to do with powerscaling, Goku doing okay for himself while warming up in his base form is tame in comparison. Daima as a whole has actually been relatively easy to follow for the strength stuff; there hasn't been anything egregious or inconsistent or confusing as there has with TV Super.

[ZombieVito]

Maybe base Goku really is weaker than Glorio and Shin and he just fought very skillfully with the former.

The only hit he managed to land to Glorio did 0 damage to him and he needed to use Super Saiyan to beat his lighting magic.

[Saiyan007]

Maybe base Goku really is weaker than Glorio and Shin and he just fought very skillfully with the former.

The only hit he managed to land to Glorio did 0 damage to him and he needed to use Super Saiyan to beat his lighting magic.

That cannot be true based on events of the last episode. Base Goku manages to see Tamagashi throw away the dragonball something Shin and Glorio couldn't do, with Shin even saying he couldn't keep up with that speed.

Also this is ignoring Goku was fighting Glorio just fine with 1 arm and the hit he did land on him had him coughing up spit don't know how you see that as no damage and he only turned SSJ because Shin wanted to see more of Glorio's power. He wasn't forced to transform he was dodging his lightning in his base form

[Berserker1921]

Maybe base Goku really is weaker than Glorio and Shin and he just fought very skillfully with the former.

The only hit he managed to land to Glorio did 0 damage to him and he needed to use Super Saiyan to beat his lighting magic.

That cannot be true based on events of the last episode. Base Goku manages to see Tamagashi throw away the dragonball something Shin and Glorio couldn't do, with Shin even saying he couldn't keep up with that speed.

Also this is ignoring Goku was fighting Glorio just fine with 1 arm and the hit he did land on him had him coughing up spit don't know how you see that as no damage and he only turned SSJ because Shin wanted to see more of Glorio's power. He wasn't forced to transform he was dodging his lightning in his base form

I think Goku and Tamagashi were testing each other out. Kind of like Goku vs Broly. He needed ssj2 to beat him. And base Goku can still be inferior to Frieza but stronger than glorio and others.

[Almighty Majin]

Maybe base Goku really is weaker than Glorio and Shin and he just fought very skillfully with the former.

The only hit he managed to land to Glorio did 0 damage to him and he needed to use Super Saiyan to beat his lighting magic.

If magic is a variable power boost as I previously suggested, one could also say that the Nyoibo allows Goku to punch above his weight due to its magical properties. So even if he is in base, the Nyoibo can compensate for power gaps although of course there is a limit.

[AtlasFlame18]

Is it safe to say that as the series progresses Goku is just regaining more of his adult power as he adjusts to not just the Demon Realm environment and his smaller body as opposed to just being weaker and locked out of his adult power?

[dbgtFO]

Is it safe to say that as the series progresses Goku is just regaining more of his adult power as he adjusts to not just the Demon Realm environment and his smaller body as opposed to just being weaker and locked out of his adult power?

Yeah I think so. It will be interesting tl see, if they have Piccolo and Vegeta immediately be comfortable as soon as they have met up with Goku and co or if they also need some time to get used to it like Goku did.

[ZombieVito]

That cannot be true based on events of the last episode. Base Goku manages to see Tamagashi throw away the dragonball something Shin and Glorio couldn't do, with Shin even saying he couldn't keep up with that speed.

Also this is ignoring Goku was fighting Glorio just fine with 1 arm and the hit he did land on him had him coughing up spit don't know how you see that as no damage and he only turned SSJ because Shin wanted to see more of Glorio's power. He wasn't forced to transform he was dodging his lightning in his base form

That proves nothing. Jaco can see things others way, way above him can't.

Goku turned Super Saiyan after Glorio begins charging his full power attack.

[Almighty Majin]

Yeah I think so. It will be interesting to see, if they have Piccolo and Vegeta immediately be comfortable as soon as they have met up with Goku and co or if they also need some time to get used to it like Goku did.

Keep in mind that Vegeta had more time to train and adjust to his body while Bulma worked on the plane so he will likely have an easier time adjusting to the Demon Realm. Since Piccolo is a Namekian, I am sure that his body is naturally attuned to the Demon Realm so he will also have an easier time adjusting.

[Hugo Boss]

I lean toward the perspective that movies and anime exclusive content until early 2000 exist in alternate continuities separate from the manga and anime content in which Toriyama was implied to have more involvement, given the inherent contradictions.

I'm asking if you think the movies are all in the same continuity or if each movie occurs separated from each other, as in the Goku who faces Garlic Junior is different from the Goku that faces Wheelo, who is different from the Goku that faces Turles and etc.

I think each movie is typically designed to be a self-contained story, with characters and events not necessarily linked to other films (maybe with the exception of Coola and Broly movies among themselves) or the main series. So, the Goku who faces Garlic Jr. might be different from the Goku who faces Turles, and so on. The Jump special is the first animated project that I think is designed to be more integrated into the overall narrative and later movies.

Maybe base Goku really is weaker than Glorio and Shin and he just fought very skillfully with the former.

The only hit he managed to land to Glorio did 0 damage to him and he needed to use Super Saiyan to beat his lighting magic.

Goku’s fight with Glorio highlights an interesting dynamic: Base Goku excels in raw physical skill and strength, while Glorio’s advantage lies in his versatile and powerful magical abilities. Goku could outmatch Glorio physically in Base, even landing a clean hit, but it would be ineffective against Glorio’s serious move. This is a particular circumstance that forced Goku to rely on Super Saiyan to overcome Glorio’s lightning magic and dominate him more comfortably. Similarly, Nahare’s psychic force abilities are a specific challenge to a fighter-type like Goku, requiring overwhelming force to adapt to their unique strengths.