The Super Re-Read

[Magnificent Ponta]

If Zamasu was saying he'd now do option 3 ironically his work would never finish because every time he jumps in the machine he makes a brand new timeline full of mortals.

I'm starting to wonder if it's option 1 or 2. He felt the need to kill other gods in case they look over to his universe and see what he's doing, but that didn't extend to other gods in other timelines looking over into his timeline, he must have thought they never would. He knows the GoD's can't do it and the kaioshins are too weak.

But wouldn't he have killed all the gods in all the timelines first if he was going to do it eventually as there's still a non zero chance he might be discovered in the mean time and they'd be ready for him, unless of course he had no plans on ever going there. The bigger evidence imo is that regardless of killing the gods he could have recruited the Unseen, Cell, and U12guy Zamasu's but didn't, because imo he had no intention of clearing their timelines for him. Black only needed one Zamasu to help him secure his/their new home universe/timeline.

The only evidence it was option 1 over option 2 is it would explain how/why he never had to deal with Jiren. I think they had killed all the mortals in Trunks U7 (Stabbing Broly before Paragus and Stabbing Moro before he could do much absorption/surprised is possible)
But it'd make sense if they never bumped into Jiren yet. Perhaps they were just going to do U7 first and would get to Jiren eventually...

This discussion made me remember that Zamas actually comes back from looking at the other parallel timelines in Chapter 20, and he says to Black that he's checked on the other timelines and no-one can oppose them, so they can take control of them easily - he then says "We're almost there. It won't be long before mortals cease to exist across all five timelines!".

So, I guess despite what I thought earlier about their ambitions growing, it seems that their ambitions really were more like your Option 3 from the time we encounter them, and maybe from the very beginning - Universe 7 of Trunks's reality probably is, then, just the most congenial testbed for this intention. But it still seems like killing the Gods was originally principally to forestall opposition to the implementation of the Zero Mortals Plan, rather than due to an intention to dispense with everything else for its own sake (which is the attitude from Chapter 23 onwards). While it ends up the same, it comes from a different motivation, I guess.

But I agree with you that Zamas thinking he can eliminate all the mortals across time is hopelessly naive. I think it speaks to his character.

[TobyS]

If Zamasu was saying he'd now do option 3 ironically his work would never finish because every time he jumps in the machine he makes a brand new timeline full of mortals.

I'm starting to wonder if it's option 1 or 2. He felt the need to kill other gods in case they look over to his universe and see what he's doing, but that didn't extend to other gods in other timelines looking over into his timeline, he must have thought they never would. He knows the GoD's can't do it and the kaioshins are too weak.

But wouldn't he have killed all the gods in all the timelines first if he was going to do it eventually as there's still a non zero chance he might be discovered in the mean time and they'd be ready for him, unless of course he had no plans on ever going there. The bigger evidence imo is that regardless of killing the gods he could have recruited the Unseen, Cell, and U12guy Zamasu's but didn't, because imo he had no intention of clearing their timelines for him. Black only needed one Zamasu to help him secure his/their new home universe/timeline.

The only evidence it was option 1 over option 2 is it would explain how/why he never had to deal with Jiren. I think they had killed all the mortals in Trunks U7 (Stabbing Broly before Paragus and Stabbing Moro before he could do much absorption/surprised is possible)
But it'd make sense if they never bumped into Jiren yet. Perhaps they were just going to do U7 first and would get to Jiren eventually...

This discussion made me remember that Zamas actually comes back from looking at the other parallel timelines in Chapter 20, and he says to Black that he's checked on the other timelines and no-one can oppose them, so they can take control of them easily - he then says "We're almost there. It won't be long before mortals cease to exist across all five timelines!".

So, I guess despite what I thought earlier about their ambitions growing, it seems that their ambitions really were more like your Option 3 from the time we encounter them, and maybe from the very beginning - Universe 7 of Trunks's reality probably is, then, just the most congenial testbed for this intention. But it still seems like killing the Gods was originally principally to forestall opposition to the implementation of the Zero Mortals Plan, rather than due to an intention to dispense with everything else for its own sake (which is the attitude from Chapter 23 onwards). While it ends up the same, it comes from a different motivation, I guess.

But I agree with you that Zamas thinking he can eliminate all the mortals across time is hopelessly naive. I think it speaks to his character.

Ok this is huge, now does this by extension mean they have already killed all the other gods in all those other timelines EXCEPT the "new main timeline"?? (And just never stumbled across Jiren/Broly/Moro or never stumbled across Jiren and never saw the potential in the other two)

It'd make sense that Trunks only saves the new main timelines gods by going back before Zamasu did it and warning them, splitting it off and this Zamasu not realising there's another ring/universe he needs to go to.

This would totally explain them not being afraid of the chance, however small of other GoDs from other timelines spotting them.

HOWEVER the 'evidence' the other way for this is that you'd think if they did that they might as well recruit the other Zamases while they were there, Cell-Zams Unseen-Zamas U12guy-Zamas unless they didn't want to share power? U12 TL could be so different there is a Zamas. They have to kill Gowasu each time and Zamas would Zamasu be a witness/find the body later and possibly report to Zeno? I guess Zeno would never put on a timering and follow them but do they know that? I'd like if alt zenos can't affect other timelines, like infinity gauntlets can't but it seems like he was during the ToP (the other could share his power but there's no evidence)

The third explanation is he's saying those universes are overall weaker (with the gods probably being the same except possibly U12's one)
So we already know the Cell Timeline is the most Z-fighter-less of all, so this just confirms quite logically that the unseen one and U12 are weaker. (this doesn't preclude my U12one is a GT-esque timeline where the DBheroes cast come from).

So what he's saying here is that those will fall the exact same way, as killing the kaioshins will be as easy as before and the mortal side is even weaker to boot.

This is in a very roundabout way telling us some info about the unseen timeline and others we haven't had before.
Which is interesting because I thought if they ever used those other 3 it'd be to have strong guys we plausibly haven't ran into till now, yet clearly this is not the case.

This ALSO tells as that those universes excluded from the ToP don't have any (not well hidden) mega powerful surprises hidden away either as some have speculated...

[TobyS]

Ah yeah Black also says "mortals are doomed to die in the future of all of the parallel worlds. The zero mortal project will be completed in every single one of them"

So yeah I guess they mean everywhere rather then just 5/6 different U7's.

Been wanting an answer on that for years and it's right there in the text!

It's only really the threat of using the machine to do it instead of the rings that's weird.

[Cipher]

Ah yeah Black also says "mortals are doomed to die in the future of all of the parallel worlds. The zero mortal project will be completed in every single one of them"

So yeah I guess they mean everywhere rather then just 5/6 different U7's.

Been wanting an answer on that for years and it's right there in the text!

It's only really the threat of using the machine to do it instead of the rings that's weird.

To be fair, what brings up the time machine in context in the climax is the Zamasus threatening the heroes with the information that they won't be safe even in the "present." They can immediately come after them there.

Theoretically, doing so wouldn't even cause another split, since they wouldn't be causing any paradoxes by following the heroes back into their own timeline at that point. There's no established history they'd be contradicting in this new, Zamasu-less split.

[TobyS]

Ah yeah Black also says "mortals are doomed to die in the future of all of the parallel worlds. The zero mortal project will be completed in every single one of them"

So yeah I guess they mean everywhere rather then just 5/6 different U7's.

Been wanting an answer on that for years and it's right there in the text!

It's only really the threat of using the machine to do it instead of the rings that's weird.

To be fair, what brings up the time machine in context in the climax is the Zamasus threatening the heroes with the information that they won't be safe even in the "present." They can immediately come after them there.

Theoretically, doing so wouldn't even cause another split, since they wouldn't be causing any paradoxes by following the heroes back into their own timeline at that point. There's no established history they'd be contradicting in this new, Zamasu-less split.

Yeah you are right, I keep thinking of the trunks time being the “real present” and anything else being the past and all past travel creating splits.

But you are right that's not quite the case.

Still would be quicker for them to use the time rings UNLESS Black didn't bring his box of time rings and only wore the trunks timeline one to trunks....

[Cipher]

Yeah you are right, I keep thinking of the trunks time being the “real present” and anything else being the past and all past travel creating splits.

But you are right that's not quite the case.

Still would be quicker for them to use the time rings UNLESS Black didn't bring his box of time rings and only wore the trunks timeline one to trunks....

Time Rings make conquest of the other timelines easier (and avoid potential timeline splits).

However, Time Rings do not allow for travel to the past, so the only way to make good on the threat of following the heroes home immediately is the time machine. Otherwise everyone has 17 years minimum to wait for Zamasu to show up.

[TobyS]

Yeah you are right, I keep thinking of the trunks time being the “real present” and anything else being the past and all past travel creating splits.

But you are right that's not quite the case.

Still would be quicker for them to use the time rings UNLESS Black didn't bring his box of time rings and only wore the trunks timeline one to trunks....

Time Rings make conquest of the other timelines easier (and avoid potential timeline splits).

However, Time Rings do not allow for travel to the past, so the only way to make good on the threat of following the heroes home immediately is the time machine. Otherwise everyone has 17 years minimum to wait for Zamasu to show up.

Ah yeah of course they can't duh. Good catch. Even in that anime only bollocks where black went to the present he couldn't stay because the rings aren't supposed to let you do that.

So black and Zam could follow immediately from their perspective but from the dragon teams perspective they would have had 17 years of training and prep time since they last saw em.

This clears everything up.

So we don't know if they wiped out all god's yet in all the other timelines?

but either way the mortals are slightly to a lot weaker. The unseen timeline boys have been slacking hard it seems, makes you wonder how the cell saga went and how buu saga went for them. If they still met Beerus they could survive as long as there's no Buu and they'd have no god ki to show for it...

[Magnificent Ponta]

The Super Re-Read: Chapters 25 - 28 (Plus Bonus Chapter #3!)
Part 1 (Chapters 25 and 26)



My my my, it's that time again. Welcome back to the Super Re-Read! We've moved on to Volume 5 of the Dragon Ball Super manga, so we'll be covering the climax and resolution of the Future Trunks arc, in which we see the appearance of the parallel Zeno-Sama and the final destruction of Zamas!

As usual, thanks and credit goes to Kanzenshuu for a lot of the information in these threads, particularly the Japanese titles, the publication dates, and material from the interview archive to elucidate a lot of the talking points in the chapter notes (I should also give overdue thanks and credit to the old Kanzentai site at this point - in particular, a lot of my Daizenshuu #4 reference points in the re-read so far have come from what that site had up before its merger with Daizenshuu EX) - I try to make the synthesis as full and accurate as I reasonably can, and I can only go so far by just referring to the manga itself - I couldn't do it without these treasure troves of info.

A volume per go is quite a bit, but I think it's surely worth it - so grab your manga for this go around, and let's get back into the re-read!

Chapter 25 - Will It Be Goku!? Or Zamasu!?/Will it be Goku?! Or Zamas?!
21 June 2017

Spoiler:

The fierce battle between Goku and Zamas continues - Goku's hits are doing real damage to Zamas, Zamas repulses Goku to try to find enough time to recover, but Goku comes back with more attacks - Zamas tries to pin Goku to the ground, but he hits Zamas with a blast - Goku's not giving up! He unleashes a fierce attack again, and the pair trade vicious blows, laying each other out briefly. Zamas gets up and tries to recover his damage, but Goku's up again, and hits him hard...it's a race against time, as Goku continues to risk the Blue exploding from out of him - he has to stake it all on a final effort, as he gathers all the Blue power into his fist! Zamas rises again, and completely loses his composure, ranting and raving about destroying the Galaxy, his aura spilling out of him in his rage, while he's still injured. Trunks is astonished at the power he has left, but Vegeta sees that Zamas is at his limit, too. Goku and Zamas mount a final charge...but Goku vanishes from out of the way of Zamas's attack, and uses Beerus's move - Destruction!!

Zamas starts to disintegrate under the move, but by the time Goku's half-done, he rallies - he reaches through a portal, and grabs Mai! He's using her as a shield! Goku instinctively flinches from continuing his attack, and Zamas uses the opening to deliver a crushing kick, which knocks Goku out. Zamas has won. He finally recovers all his damage, reflects on the undignified victory he just achieved, and says he'll never bother with mortals again. Trunks mounts a futile attack, but Zamas just glares him away, Kaioshin style. He clarifies that he'll never create any mortals again, obviously. Then, he prepares to destroy the world, just to get things over with. But suddenly, he splits! It's been an hour - the fusion has ended! But something's up - he's not truly splitting; he's staying partially merged in a disgusting 'fusion' of Black and Zamas, as they struggle to stay as one! How are they overcoming the split like this?

Gowas explains that Zamas and Black are really the same person, rather than really a fusion; over the last hour, they may have somehow joined on a cellular level. Zamas still struggles, claiming to be the one and only God - but then, he's sliced in two -- by Trunks! The two fall out of the fusion at last, and Trunks deals the final blow, stabbing Black through the back. It's over - Earth is saved. But then, Black's hand twitches - he blasts Trunks in the back, knocking him out! Then, he gets up - still impaled on Trunks's sword - removes it - and snaps it in his hand! Then, his face changes - to that of the merged Zamas!! Goku backs away in shock, and bumps into the original Zamas - who also changes into the merged Zamas! There are two of them! Unsurprisingly, everyone is astonished. The Zamases knock Goku about - they're just as strong as each other.

Vegeta overcomes his shock at this turn of events, and roars into a furious SSjB. He kicks Goku from Zamas's grip, and charges an attack. His powering-up the attack rouses Trunks, who shields the unconscious Mai... but it's time for the Gamma Burst Flash! Vegeta fires off a huge beam, almost point-blank, at the two fused Zamases, engulfing the pair and carving a vast trench ahead of him. Pieces of the two Zamases litter the ground. But then the pieces start recovering - Goku says it's no use, as the immortal Zamases will keep reviving like this. Shin and Gowas teleport in, telling the group it's time to flee; Goku objects, but then the Zamases recover...a whole group of them!!

Chapter Notes

• Just jumping straight in with the cheat for favourite art: it's pretty much all of it. The fight between Goku and Zamas is frenetic, dynamic and beautifully drawn, and while that only takes up the first half of the chapter, it's a real stand-out for the whole series so far (as I've kept saying). From within that glorious set of pages, Zamas's tantrum and the final Hakai-clash are particular gems, and even from later in the chapter, the de-fusion of Black and Zamas is delightfully gross in its depiction (and a nice visual nod to the distortion that their thematic unity represents, to boot); and Vegeta's Gamma Burst Flash sequence is great, too.

• Even so, there are still a couple of panels where the layout and action depicted don't quite seem well-suited for each other (just for the sake of balance and critique) - notably, I'd say for their importance as story beats, the panels of Zamas knocking out Goku and Black sneak attacking Trunks are depicted from a slightly awkward mid-range in panels that don't seem quite big enough , just for the sake of seeing reactions to the K.O. which probably could've been put in a panel on the next page or whatever. In fairness, depicting the Black-Trunks bit dynamically in a single panel would probably be a bit awkward no matter how you do it. Regarding the depiction of Goku's K.O, I feel like Toyotarou will do much better in his next attempt at such a shot, when Toppo does it in 超 #29.

• I like how the time Zamas takes between experiencing damage and managing to recover becomes a driving force in the depiction of this fight - I think it really gives it visual momentum to see Goku keep on relentlessly moving to deliver new and increasing damage to Zamas, and it's also a logical development of what we were seeing from his encounter with Zamas in 超 #22, where he says (of dealing damage) "I can't tell if it's no use...so I just gotta keep on fighting until you give up." As we see further on in this issue, pushing Zamas like this makes him risk losing the form he's in entirely (as Vegeta says, "If he allows that much energy to erupt without first restoring his physical stamina - even if he's immortal - he'll still suffer the consequences!"), so even though Zamas is immortal, Goku's tactic here was possibly pushing him to the edge of defeat even before everything was staked on a final 'Hakai' blow. Of course, Goku's own problems with keeping up SSjB mean that this possibility couldn't be pursued.

• I've seen some comments that wonder why Goku has never yet used Hakai again on an enemy after this (it's possible that he uses it on a rock in 超 #65, but that's all, and it could be something else entirely), and I think the answer lies in a few points:
  • Firstly, he obviously could never have used it in the Tournament of Power at any point, killing being forbidden;
  • Secondly, in the Moro arc there's no guarantee that Moro couldn't have taken and used that energy for himself (and often Goku wasn't in a position where he'd've had the power to do it if he wanted, being subject to Moro's ki drain);
  • Thirdly, he completely expends all the ki he's got in using the move in this instance - like Vegeta says, "There won't be a next time. This is his last chance." And like we see, it doesn't come off here - not exactly an encouraging sign for re-using it.

• Zamas, in his rage, now commits to destroying the whole Galaxy, completely overturning his putative moral stance on why he intends to eliminate the mortals in the first place. Having argued so hard about it with Gowas and proclaimed it to Vegeta, and having taken care to mention to Trunks that he wouldn't destroy the Earth, he's now just become a thoughtless destroyer, worse than any barbarian mortal in his senseless charge towards desecration of the Cosmos. That this isn't something just said on the spur of the moment is shown once he's regained his composure and says "This planet is a pain. I'm going to wipe it out." It's an interesting move for the depiction of Zamas, and I think it's the ultimate payoff for the superficiality and falseness I mentioned as key to the character a while back - finally, he's false to himself. It seems fitting.

• Again, the pages where they charge at each other are super, super cool. I can't stress this enough.

• So, the connection with Beerus and Goku's exchange about the work and purpose of the God of Destruction from 超 #15 comes full circle - Goku criticises the (selective, if capricious) use of Destruction by Beerus, but relies on it in this instance to try to take out someone whose intention is to destroy on a total, undiscriminating scale (and there's a possible implicit comparison working in this scene between Beerus destroying "unnecessary" planets once in a while and Zamas revealing he "doesn't need" this Cosmos - having previously set out his stall as maintaining Universal order by eliminating "unnecessary beings"); and, of course, just as Beerus used Hakai to destroy Zamas in the past, so Goku uses it to try to destroy him in the future.

• How does Zamas summon up the wherewithal to think of, and pursue, a way out of his predicament with a quite literally half-destroyed brain and body? An impressive feat of focus, I guess. Beerus reveals in 超 #26 that the technique wouldn't have worked in the end anyway (Whis implies that Gods have some sort of option to seal their enemies away - we'll talk about this later), so even if Goku had managed to finish the job, I guess Zamas would've popped back up from a grain of dust or something...

• Interesting that when Zamas restores himself, the Potara is restored with his body immediately, rather than when he restores his clothes.

• When he mentions that his 'cheat' win is a lesson never to bother with Mortals again, as he prepares to blow up the Earth, one gets the feeling that Zamas's shame and embarrassment at having to stoop so low provokes him to erase the source of his embarrassment immediately - an implicit concession that he's not as high above his enemies as he asserts. Of course, much of the arc (and Dragon Ball Super generally) has been about the ascent of mortals to Godhood, and the crux of this arc is in a God who strikes pre-emptively against mortals, in part to preserve the conceit of his own innate superiority.

• Zamas glares SSj2 Trunks out of the fight, sending him flying and out of the form. Shin uses this same technique against Majin Buu, to little effect, in DB #463. Buu gives it right back to him, with effects much more like what we see here between Zamas and Trunks.

• The fact that Zamas has used all his time by this point means that Goku must have held him off for something like 20 minutes.

• The de-fusion of Zamas is suitably disgusting and distorted. I mentioned last time that the times in the arc where it seems that the heroes are most likely to overcome Black and Zamas are times when they are divided from each other, figuratively and literally. We had this in 超 #22, where Zamas is briefly divided from, and turned against, Black, and this was overcome by achieving greater unity than ever through the fusion. Now we have it in the much more literal sense of Zamas and Black being split off from each other, which gives Trunks the opening to forcibly separate them in this moment of weakness and (apparently) kill Black.

• Of course, the pair have achieved a more lasting unity through their sharing of a single soul. Gowas's explanation that because they're the same Zamas, they've joined on the cellular level is perhaps a little oddly 'biological' for a godly/magical fusion, but I guess that the increasing control of Zamas's soul over the physical body he occupies has been a very clearly phrased plot element since 超 #20; the unity of his purpose overcoming the forced separation of his body/bodies fits thematically, as well.

• I enjoy the panel of Black with that fat sword through him. In fact, the beats of Black being immortal and Black and Zamas each becoming the merged Zamas are pretty effective and have well-judged pacing. Of course, their sameness and unity speaks further to what I was just saying above, which is what ultimately overcomes the second instance of their division and seals the heroes' fate. The escalation is effective in the sense that Zamas, despite de-fusing, hasn't let go of any of the things that he's gained (Massive power, Godly and Saiyan abilities, Immortality), he's just literally multiplied them. While it's quite simple and on-the-nose as an instance of escalation, coming as it does at this point in the arc it serves to underscore how helpless our exhausted heroes are, and now they're completely backed into a corner (even before he multiplies again to 10 Zamases).

• Vegeta has literally kicked Goku out of a battle before, in the fight with Android #19 in DB #343 (and he threw him out in the last chapter, to get him healed by Trunks); Goku will get kicked out of harm's way again in 超 #37 by Freeza, when Kale breaks his guard.

• I like the little Human moment the scene shows, where Trunks's first thought is to stagger over to Mai and protect her from the effects of Vegeta's attack.

• I like the Gamma Burst Flash - this is the first time Vegeta's used this attack (he'll use it next in 超 #42), and I think the hand placement is quite surprising (sort of like an inverse Final Flash); I understand the colour pages depict it as yellow, which is a weird decision for a phrase so intimately connected with the colour green in popular culture ("gamma ________"), but I get that the colour manga does this for stuff like the Kamehameha as well, which is infinitely more jarring to me.

• The dismemberment and piecemeal restoration of Zamas is suitably grotesque - I get the feeling we probably wouldn't have been shown it in quite this graphic detail if it weren't a given that he was going to come right back from it. Try as I might, though, I can never see the 'Monaka Black' version from the interstitial represented in any of the crowd panels in the next chapter...

Chapter 26 - The Decisive Battle! Farewell, Trunks/The Decisive Battle! Farewell, Trunks!
21 July 2017

Spoiler:

Now ten Zamases stand before the exhausted and astonished heroes - all immortal, and as strong as the original fused Zamas. They advance on the heroes; Shin is first to react, and tells Vegeta to take his hand (so they can teleport away) - but Vegeta is paralysed with dread. Shin grabs him, and tells Goku to take his hand as well. But then the Zamases pounce! Goku manages to react in time and grab Shin's hand, and the group teleport away, before the Zamases can strike... Over in West City, the fleeing heroes prepare the Time Machine to depart. Goku again objects to leaving, as Zamas left unchecked will destroy all the parallel Universes - a voice tells them that's not all he'll destroy - Zamas appears again. But wait - dozens and dozens of Zamases appear, surrounding the heroes on every side! Zamas says he will chase them wherever they go, even into the past. Shin tells him that's impossible for the Ring of Time, but Zamas reveals he doesn't need it - he has taken the Time Machine developed in Universe 12, which Gowas told him about! He can go back to the past and eliminate all the mortals - and he'll start in the reality the heroes all came from...They can't escape. He tells them to give up and let him kill them now.

Vegeta resolves to stay and fight to the end - he tells Goku to go with the others and pray for a miracle. But Goku won't go - he'll fight, too. Trunks objects - he won't go and leave them. Vegeta tells him to go, and take care of Mai...and Bulma. Trunks finally assents, and closes the hatch, preparing to leave. Goku asks, but Vegeta says he has no plan - "Go wild until you die. That's all." Goku wishes he had a Senzu for the last battle... but he feels something under his shirt - the button Zeno gave him! Goku asks Shin - is Zeno in this timeline. Shin is sure he must be, since no-one can defeat him. Goku thinks the button will work - and, telling Trunks to wait, presses it with a smile. Zeno appears! And lands on His face. The Zamases are terrified at His presence, as He dusts Himself off. Goku quickly explains that he called Zeno, and that he's a friend from another timeline. Zeno looks around, and asks what has happened; Goku blames the petrified Zamases. Zeno is annoyed. Goku asks if He wants to erase them - Zeno agrees; a world like this should disappear. Goku is startled - he didn't expect this! He runs, tells everyone to flee, and the heroes escape with the Rings of Time and Trunks's Time Machine (Goku and Vegeta grab on to the outside). The Zamases try to run, but it's no use - Zeno erases everything, and they all die abruptly, mourning the unfinished plan. The Ring of Time connected to Trunks's reality shatters - his timeline is gone.

Back in the past, the Time Machine appears, dispensing a time-travelsick Goku into the Capsule Corp feature pond. The return of the heroes is hailed by those who have waited for them, in a touching reunion as even Vegeta accepts a tender display of affection. Shin, the Elder Kaioshin, Gowas, and Kibito also teleport in to join the heroes, and Kibito restores everyone. Mai notices Pilaf and greets him happily, but the absence of their future counterparts disconcerts Pilaf and Shu. Before he can ask about that, Trunks interrupts to introduce Beerus and Whis; Beerus says he can tell they had a hard time and couldn't beat Zamas on their own... That evening, at dinner, Mai and Trunks enjoy their first good meal in a long time, as kid Mai accepts that her older counterpart is a better match for Trunks. Beerus, meanwhile, is seriously put out by Shin risking their lives by going to the future, and by Goku having summoned Zeno-Sama; Trunks notes that even though Zeno destroyed his reality, at least they protected the other parallel worlds. Whis and Beerus agree that reducing the number of parallel worlds is a good outcome, too - Bulma objects that this leaves Trunks and Mai with nowhere to go, but when Goku mentions that they couldn't have returned anyway (based on what Bulma said earlier), it turns out that Pilaf(!) has figured out how it can be done - they can now travel to all kinds of different futures! Beerus is annoyed at their constant flouting of 'the rules', but Whis counsels turning a blind eye. But Goku realises something - he needs to go back to Trunks's time after all...

The Time Machine appears in empty space. Goku looks around - there He is: Zeno-Sama! Goku greets Him, and promises to take Him somewhere more fun, now that everything's gone... The Time Machine reappears on Earth, and the appearance of the parallel Zeno gives Beerus a comical scare; Goku then asks Shin to take them... to the Kingdom Palace! Goku greets 'his' Zeno, and presents Him His parallel self as a new friend to play with, as promised. Zeno then merrily plays with His alternate-reality counterpart, as Goku reflects on it all working out, as do Whis and the Grand Priest, who promises to come visit Universe 7 one day... Back on Earth, Gowas thanks the heroes and apologises for the trouble, and departs. Trunks and Mai ask Bulma if they can return to an earlier point in their own timestream; Bulma isn't sure, but to Beerus's consternation, Whis reveals it's possible. Shin says if he doesn't die in the battle with Dabura, Beerus will survive and can help if Zamas appears again. Goku asks if he can destroy him - he can't, but they have something else that can deal with immortals... Beerus tell's Trunks he'll let it slide, this time, and tells him to make it count. Two days later, Trunks and Mai prepare to leave. Shin offers him a place on his world, but Trunks graciously refuses, saying he will likewise renounce his position as Shin's apprentice once he's beaten Dabura and Babidi. Kid Trunks and Mai bid their counterparts farewell (and kid Mai says she likes kid Trunks best for now..!), as do Bulma, Vegeta, and Goku - who knows that Trunks will succeed in bringing peace to the future. Trunks thanks everyone - Pilaf tries to get Mai to divulge what happens to him in the future, but she only references it obliquely, and they depart, leaving the heroes content (and Pilaf seriously freaked out...).

Chapter Notes

• I've mentioned this various times already (and I may be overstating my case), but I really like how Shin is pretty much always ready to act in this arc, even though he's completely useless from a straightforward 'fighting power' perspective. I appreciate scenes like this, when the sheer outpouring of power from the main characters has completely failed (even made the situation worse), and they stand paralysed with fear, and people like Shin butt in (impatiently, even) and take the initiative to act usefully. We've seen it before (as in 超 #21), and maybe it's just that he's used to being scared and outclassed so that the hopelessness of the situation affects him less than Vegeta or Goku (who are arguably less used to the feeling), but I do enjoy reminders that the other players show their worth in ways like this, through character, and not just power.

• Favourite Art: I think Toyotarou enjoys himself a bit more in this chapter than some of the others in this arc, particularly the Zamas crowd stuff, which is more than a little reminiscent of various scenes from Clash!! 10,000,000,000 Powerful Warriors, particularly the emergence of an army of Metal Coolers. I enjoy the panel early on where the 10 Zamases pounce on the heroes - I think it's dramatic and well-composed. Of course, the double-page panel of the dozens of Zamases around the cityscape is a stand-out piece of work as well (and you can see what is presumably Randosel Tower from 超 #18 in the distance as well, which is a nice little bit of 'completionist' detail, from a continuity perspective), and I enjoy the panel where they face down the Zamas army. The panels after that, where they power up, look thick with tonal contrast (which is a slightly odd look for Super, but one that I personally am quite drawn to). The expressions in the various reactions to Zeno-Sama are on-point, and I also think the terror and power of Zeno is well conveyed in stuff like the 'How annoying' panel and the pages where he erases everything.

• I can only assume, in the pause between the heroes' flight to West City and the Zamases appearing there, that they spent some time blowing themselves to bits to create the dozens that we see in the cityscape shot. It's slightly goofy to picture in the mind's eye, but it is in keeping with Zamas's M.O. so far, where he 'hacks' his acquired abilities to gain a decisive advantage. Also, it plays to his announcement in 超 #23 that he would destroy all intelligent life that wasn't himself - and now he has a means of populating the various parallel realities with endless copies of himself...

• "If you want a vision of the future, imagine Zamas stamping on a mortal face - forever." All of the Zamases control the Ring of Time, so they can infest the parallel Universes; as Shin says, however, the Ring of Time can't travel to a point in the past (relative to where its user came from, I suppose that means). The mention of Universe 12's Time Machine is an interesting way of bringing the whole Time Travel/Parallel Universes theme full circle, but technically, by using it to eliminate mortals 'in the past', what he'd really be doing is just creating additional parallel timelines where there aren't any mortals from an earlier point in that reality's existence; he'd still have to erase the mortal life that exists in the 'present' - and even then, he wouldn't be able to erase the mortals from all points in all timestreams; they'd've needed to be there in the first place to be destroyed. The gross inflation of Zamas's grandiose plans, so that their actual achievement is out of reach (if one thinks about it for a few minutes), is entirely characteristic of the man. He'd have to content himself with newly-created realities and his own future going forward being devoid of mortals (and full of Zamases, I'm sure).

• We of course get the point that Vegeta is thinking of Bulma and protecting others here, when he steps forth to futilely try to hold off the Zamases, and that he leaves her in Trunks's care is almost a consummation of everything that Trunks's own background has been missing - his Vegeta went off, uncaring about his dependents, into his final fight with the Androids, and the absence was keenly felt by both Trunks and the Bulma of that time; Trunks came to see Vegeta for what he was, but now, Vegeta has changed, and their parting at what is prospectively Vegeta's final fight now restores their bond. But it's also another failure for Trunks, who has stated his intent of protecting Vegeta for Bulma's sake (since he remembers her sadness in being without him) in 超 #23, but now is going to be thrown back onto the old partnership. Of course, Vegeta will get his payoff for this in the tearful reunion with Bulma later in this issue.

• "Go wild until you die. That's all." That's just a damn cool line.

• Goku's shirt has become something like a clown's pocket by this point - it's held various Senzu Beans, at least two Capsules (for the pickled plum jar and the Time Machine), the Potara earrings, and of course the now (re-)revealed Zeno button. I feel like Goku must rustle quite loudly when he moves.

• I do enjoy the mischievous look on Goku's face when he pushes the button. I really feel he's getting a kick out of (1) Having an Ace-in-the-Hole of outrageous power, and (2) Just upending things for the Hell of it. He'll show a similar Devil-May-Care brinksmanship when he pushes the button again at the end of the next issue, to go and see Zeno. To have the ruler of everything at your beck and call, and to be able to frighten anyone with it to boot, is too much power (particularly for someone like Goku)...

• I also appreciate the massive tone shift that takes place when Zeno appears. It's a literal Deus Ex Machina plot move, but at least the narrative is open about that and has fun with it, as all the Shin-jin, the Zamases especially, totally freak out. Some people don't like the tone shift here, as it undermines Zamas's sense of composure (not that he really has that in the manga, which is another cause of criticism from... generally the same people, to be honest), and it admittedly is quite abrupt for an arc that (like everything about Trunks's world) has traded a lot on its tone. However, the presence of Zeno does bring these conflicting tones into whatever scene He's in, since He's always comically terrifying, and it does make complete sense that Zamas should be as terrified of Him as anyone else.

• I like how Zamas's statement about his plan is cut short, much like the plan itself - it underscores how far he always was from achieving it, irrespective of his personal vanity.

• Having talked around this a bit already, I guess I have to assume that the destruction of the Ring of Time for this timeline is probably more symbolic than functional, since Goku is capable of returning to that timeline to fetch Zeno using the Time Machine - though there's literally nothing else there, it still 'exists' as a destination. And I assume that, when Trunks and Mai return to an earlier point in that timestream, the Ring of Time would re-appear to correspond to the changed timeline that Trunks would be creating?

• It's interesting that people can simply hang on to the Time Machine and go with it (I wonder - if Cell had known that, might he have tried to frighten some random Human into pushing the button for him while he clung on to the outside?). I like how Goku's Time-travelsickness reasserts itself with a vengeance; he previously had a mild case from looking out of the window in 超 #18, but now is completely debilitated.

• Oh, and Goku falling into the feature pond is just one extra detail that, for the celebratory panels, makes his look and posture correspond to the celebratory panels for Freeza's 'defeat' in DB #317 (where Piccolo has already fished him out of the water), weary thumbs-up and all.

• The food relay continues as a fitting bookend to the action, with a celebratory barbecue. Oddly, Beerus is the only one who isn't shown to be eating. Whis's continued preference for sweet treats seems on display here, as he has a cake of some sort, and a few days later, he'll be shown packing cookies and chocolates into a massive swag bag to tide him over into the next arc.

• Beerus's occasional attempts to take his job seriously seem only to surface whenever something that scares him shows up - he only intervenes against Black because he'll die otherwise, and his sanctimony around Goku's "sins" specifically reference his use of Zeno-Sama, who of course terrifies Beerus such that he wants nothing to do with Him. As I've mentioned before, the self-serving nature of Beerus's comments here aren't always totally obvious, which I think confuses and annoys some readers when they think that maybe he's more virtuous or committed than he otherwise shows, which leads them to interpret there being some sort of inconsistency when he acts like he generally does.

• I still don't love the hand-waving of that issue about 'not being able to go back again', but that's because I don't like that it was set up as a 'problem' in the first place, not because it's summarily resolved here - in fact, I quite like the gag where Pilaf is the one to figure out the mechanics of time travel, and Goku just says "I didn't know you were this smart...", which is an enjoyable reference to all the half-baked robots and uselessly elaborate tech Pilaf has had at his disposal in his past Dragon Ball outings. He's always considered himself a "grand scientist" with a "genius intellect", so it's fun to see that conceit usefully deployed for a change.

• I find the resolution of the Zeno plot thread to be very satisfying - it's just such a tidy closed loop of plotting, which stands out to me in an arc that has sometimes verged on the overwrought; it's also one of those 'Goku's unusual insight' moments that Dragon Ball gives us at various points, which I tend to find enjoyable. Of course, this will also serve to be one of the necessary causes of the next arc, where both of them will reinforce upon each other that they're bored of the Universes and want to erase a bunch, so of course there's something a little more sinister about the whole thing, which (as everyone's been insisting to Goku) stands as of a piece with Zeno's adorable purity.

• On that note, we get the Grand Priest's promise to visit Universe 7 one day. In the current context of the Moro arc, where the possibility that the Grand Priest might be provoked to anger by the loss of Merus lingers in the background, this promise might now be read as a threat.

• Beerus admits that Hakai cannot destroy immortals in any case, but Whis implies that the Gods of Destruction have a technique that is more convenient that the Mafuba (presumably, therefore, a sealing technique) - this may be a reference to Toriyama's statement that Beerus sealed the Elder Kaioshin in the Z-Sword. Toriyama often uses tropes of 'sealed-away demons' in his works - Piccolo Daimao, Majin Buu, and the demon from the first issue of Neko Majin all immediately spring to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

• As I mentioned before, the statement of having the power of two Trunks comes out to play again (having last emerged when playing video games). I still think it's a slightly strange application.

• And, even though he "doesn't get what's going on", Goku comes in with The Point of The Whole Thing, which shows he really does understand what's important - Trunks belongs to the future, and like the narrator from DB #420 said, the peace of the future will be assured if Trunks is there to defend it. That's the point of him, and stands behind everything he does - he's the hope of the future, and that's why this is his arc.

• And finally, we have the gag that Pilaf freaks out about his future fate - I really like the interstitial here; I was tempted to think that the reason we didn't see Pilaf again was that he actually had gone to the future (and maybe had even become King of the World, until it obviously would've gone wrong for him), but he does appear in the background of 超 #42, so if he really did do anything, it would've been only temporary before returning to his cosy life at Capsule Corp.

• Overall, my feelings about the arc are mixed. I feel like the image of Zamas and Black's de-fusion stands as something of a visual representation, or totem, for what this arc is overall: an unstable fusion of the most popular elements of the Cell and Buu arcs, held together by a memorable antagonist and, in places, sheer force of will. You take Trunks and his destroyed future on the one hand, and fuse it with the Kaioshin and their mysteries (including potara fusion, possibly among the elements most readily clutched to the breast of the broader fandom) on the other, and place it in the context that Super has already established, and you more-or-less have most of the elements of this arc immediately in place. It's clearly fanservice (and Toriyama basically admitted as much), but that isn't a bad thing in and of itself. In fact, I think it's mostly well-handled in that sense. But I do think its set-up is pretty intricate and overwrought, so it does require the much simpler 'cut-through' that a threat like Zamas represents, just to keep the narrative on track and moving forward. But of course, he has a certain level of narrative complexity around him as well. I think, compared to the last arc, this may be symptomatic of a less confident approach. The Universe 6 Tournament arc was just happy to play with Dragon Ball and be playful as it saw fit; this arc takes a more straightforward attempt at mining the backstory to make new content, but feels less sure of itself when it tries to wear a straight face like this and recapture the (fabulously popular) tone of Trunks's dire future.
  I can see that fans love the fact that a villain in Dragon Ball actually gets a detailed treatment of his motivations and the change in his posture as we go - I, too, find that refreshing, and think Toyotarou does relatively well with depicting it - but I think many fans of Zamas totally overstate their case when they say he's a 'deep' villain with fundamentally righteous motivations. I contended earlier, and still maintain, that he's (deliberately) no such thing - having more time devoted to the treatment doesn't necessarily change the validity or 'depth' of his motive or psychology. I think his most defining flaw is how shallow he is compared to how a Kaioshin should be, and I don't think the arc makes any moves that work against that interpretation (nor do I think it necessarily should waste time trying to do so). In fact, if he truly were deep, he wouldn't lead himself down so many problematic paths, and he wouldn't think the way he does at all. Moreover, the only moves we see him make are to the ever more extreme, grandiose, and unthinking as he gets pushed harder by the heroes. This isn't a criticism, mind you, as I think it's a deliberate narrative move to show why he's a villain (as opposed to being unconventional and extreme, but fundamentally "right", as I've seen some fans - who seem to me to be basically contrary - try to claim). I don't like Zamas or Black, or relate to their motivations, and I don't imagine for a second that I'm supposed to. However, I don't think this makes Zamas flat or generic, and apart from anything else, his background and methods are enough to make him a memorable addition to the Dragon Ball rogues gallery. I think the depiction is fine. Like I said, he has 'cut-through', particularly in his role as Black.
  I can only echo Toyotarou's statement that things pile up and become more and more complicated relative to what sounds like a relatively spare original draft, and I think his instinct to offer twists and turns is creditable and in keeping with true Dragon Ball style, as it provides extra opportunities for action, which is generally of a high and very enjoyable standard - Toyotarou overcomes some occasional blips in quality to give us some of the best action art in Super. However, sometimes the action stints that Toyotarou introduces independently do also contrive to 're-set' themselves so as to align with the general situation mandated by said outline (e.g. prior to fusion, both heroes are injured and unable to oppose Zamas, they fuse, do plenty to Zamas which he is able to recover from, and they get injured again after a 'surprise' split, which essentially brings us back to where we were), which leaves me with the feeling that although they are diverting, they are perhaps a bit inconsequential, and end up adding more to the 'pile' of things that happen in the arc. The twists certainly don't do anything to detract from the idea that the arc is already trying to do too much, at times.
  Overall, I feel like this arc is a slightly overwrought and not entirely coherent piece of completely awesome fanservice, which is as conflicted a judgement as my own feelings on it are, so I think that's as good a statement I can make on it.

Well, there you have it - a lot of reading and even more writing later, and that's the Future Trunks arc finally wrapped up. I'll be back later in the week with the first two chapters of the Tournament of Power arc, but for now it's over to you - how did you feel about the Future Trunks arc overall? What came out of your re-read?

[Cipher]

The entire sequence with Zenо̄ is one I only like more the more I go back to it. As you point out, Goku's devil-may-care, almost mischievous curiosity about what will happen when he pushes the button in Trunks' timeline is the kind of moment that feels perfectly suited to his character and his character alone.

Perhaps my favorite thing about it as a plot element is that, despite being a literal deus ex machina, it's both set up early in the arc and yet, for fear of being too transparent about having to come into play, "fires off," so to speak, in a completely unexpected way. I think most people will expect something to be done with the Chekhov's gun that is the button, but I don't think anyone would anticipate it coming with the risks and gambles that are being used to summon Future Zenо̄, rather than the present-one, and for it to lead to the destruction of the entire timeline rather than merely the defeat of the villain. It's great.

In another combination of twists and tidiness, the way it becomes an absurd solution to the search for present-day Zenо̄'s friend is another point in its corner. Said solution is also hilarious on its own and, as you likewise point out, an impetus for the next arc. (All Super plot lines between "F" and Broly connect very directly to the previous, and in doing so stem directly from the actions of the main cast themselves. I always feel is better in DB specifically so you're not left wondering what's going on in those other timelines/if everyone will be ready for X guaranteed threat if X events haven't happened. The problems the Dragon Team face tend to depend on what they themselves have done.)

I suppose I missed my window to respond more directly on the Vegetto vs. Zamasu fight, but now that the whole arc is covered: I do think it's a bit of a weak portion of the fight in the manga, contributing little except some aspect of believability to the gang's successful bid for time against Zamasu. But functionally, the fight resets into the same situation afterward, Vegetto effortlessly dominating his opponent is something we've seen before, and the climax of the action goes more successfully to Goku. It's one of the few spots I think the anime exceeds the manga in--in that, if Vegetto is going to be there, it probably makes more sense to have Zamasu put up a fight against him and make it the penultimate moment of the arc. The arc doesn't depend on having Vegetto do things; it's just that since it bothers to, the way it does feels a little unnecessary. Then again, it does come with Vegeta and Trunks' excellent exchange, so maybe it's worth it just for that moment alone.

I'm not as in love with the Goku vs. Zamasu fight as a lot of fans seem to be, but Goku using Hakai is cool. It just is. It's always fun in a big, dumb, visceral sense to see Goku learning and using new techniques. Toyotarо̄ also knows it's cool, and builds up to the surprise of it well.

I've exhausted myself talking about why I think the ending works in other threads and my own Twitter reread linked earlier in the thread, and I don't have it in me again. I like it, though.

Ultimately I think, however, my thoughts on the arc are fairly similar to yours. Much as I love its ending beats, the meat of the arc leading up to them isn't the most thrilling part of the series for me. It's fun to read, and I certainly don't remotely dislike it, but I don't/won't be awaiting most of its main plot and action on rereads to the extent I will the two surrounding arcs, which feel a little tighter on the whole. A fantastic ending to a decent arc, for me. There isn't an arc in the Super manga I actually dislike/don't enjoy, but as things stand, Future Trunks stands third out of (currently) four (not counting the BoG adaptation chapters in the total).

Also: I know it can be disheartening to write a long, thoughtful post and then not immediately receive comments, but just know I do read and enjoy each new update to this thread, even when I don't have time or the wherewithal to respond. One of the few cases where I wish a forum upvoting system were in place, just to silently show appreciation.

[batistabus]

Ponta I promise I'll come back and respond to each of these chapter sequences at some point! I've been too busy to put in the time and thoughtfulness I'd like...

[Jack Bz]

Seconding to say that I love this thread and enjoy reading Ponta's thoughts on the chapters very much, but I don't feel that I have too much to add to the discussion

[The Undying]

I too would like to apologize for dropping out of this thread. I had a period of lessened activity due to my personal life, and by the time I returned to somewhat normal availability, the re-read was already about halfway through the Future Trunks arc! I didn't want to bog the thread down with posts talking about the Universe 6 arc, so I refrained from doing so.

These takes are incredibly comprehensive and insightful, though. Rest assured, I'm still reading them, and will contribute what I can when I have enough time to tackle stuff this thorough. Fantastic job as always.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Yeah, even if they don't seem very relevant, I usually like to make small comments about the points brought by Ponta, but I always end up making super long comments and responding to several points at once, which takes me some time and I end up procrastinating to the point of never getting to update the thread haha

But I would also like to say that this thread is always a great read. After seeing that there is an update, sometimes I wait a while and take the time just to read the analysis of the chapter. I can't even think how hard it must be to bring up so many references from the original manga and make comments so well done.

I suppose I missed my window to respond more directly on the Vegetto vs. Zamasu fight, but now that the whole arc is covered: I do think it's a bit of a weak portion of the fight in the manga, contributing little except some aspect of believability to the gang's successful bid for time against Zamasu. But functionally, the fight resets into the same situation afterward, Vegetto effortlessly dominating his opponent is something we've seen before, and the climax of the action goes more successfully to Goku. It's one of the few spots I think the anime exceeds the manga in--in that, if Vegetto is going to be there, it probably makes more sense to have Zamasu put up a fight against him and make it the penultimate moment of the arc. The arc doesn't depend on having Vegetto do things; it's just that since it bothers to, the way it does feels a little unnecessary. Then again, it does come with Vegeta and Trunks' excellent exchange, so maybe it's worth it just for that moment alone.

I would say that Vegetto's appearance in both media feels a little unnecessary. I mean, the return of this fusion is openly seen as a fanservice by Toyotaro, which is not a bad thing, since it is always good to see such a cool and beloved character and there is always the possibility that it will bring good things to the series narrative. But in fact, with the retcon of Potara earrings for humans and the limited power that Vegetto can use before the fusion end, they are not exactly good for the character, with the addition of bringing little to the story, since the heroes end up more or less in same situation as they were before.

After Gogeta's performance at the Broly movie, I also feel that Vegetto was severely underutilized by the plot. We know that fusions usually don’t usually get the job done, but still they could have done something different with him in the arc

[ankokudaishogun]

there is no doubt Vegetto was superfluous both in anime and manga.
You could easily remove him wholly and one wouldn't really notice the difference.

That said, I feel it was still done better in the anime.
In the TV series, the heroes had exhausted EVERYTHING to ake down Zamasu, and it wasn't enough.
hell, Goku Kamehameha'd so hard he literally broke his armas and then his leg with a Kaiohken Kick, which in the anime was presented as a technique still dangerous to Goku's body
Unlike the manga, there was no time limit to Zamasu's merge, who even got even stronger with that lightning of justice.
Vegetto was really presented as their last chance, especially with Merged Zamasu not being utterly owned by him but managing to keep up a fight.

While in the manga there was the whole time limit. They didn't HAD to win, only to survive long enough.
And the reveal Goku still had a ace in the hole also feels out of character for him to not use it and preferring Potaras instead.

[Cipher]

And the reveal Goku still had a ace in the hole also feels out of character for him to not use it and preferring Potaras instead.

To be fair, Goku isn't gung-ho on the fusion either. He leaves the choice up to Vegeta after the Kaioshin offers the Potara, expecting Vegeta to turn it down. He then goes off to fight on his own again and only agrees to the fusion when Vegeta brings it up again, having been swayed by Trunks.

One can imagine that Goku would have brought out his perfected Blue form and Hakai had he continued to fight on his own without fusing. Though the impression from later scenes is that it's his first time actually attempting either, so it's not like they were sure-fire enough that he'd turn down fusion when Vegeta wanted to do it just to finish things on his own. (Oh, and/or they required being restored to full power by Trunks, which doesn't happen until later, now that I think about it. He's still drained from the Mafuba and earlier bouts at that point, iirc.)

The story also does a decent enough job avoiding prompting the question of why Goku wouldn't have attempted either perfected Blue or Hakai at earlier points. In their first battle, Vegeta has the situation entirely under control until the exact moment he doesn't, which is also right around when Goku is caught off guard by Zamasu's paralysis technique. In their second trip, they're also supposed to have things under control with Vegeta's training and the Mafuba, both of which should have been more reliable than Goku's unpracticed new aces. Hakai also zaps most of his energy, and the Mafuba is a more reliable technique for getting rid of the immortal Zamasu (theoretically) while post-training Vegeta deals with Black. He uses them essentially the first time he can/when last-resort untested techniques like that make sense.

I do agree that the anime has the more impactful/successful use of Vegetto, though. I think Goku's Hakai is also a good call for a climactic beat of the actual fighting portion of the finale, but it sure leaves Vegetto with nowhere to go as a plot element. Then again, it's also fine to just have some fun asides in DB fights, as long as they don't overstay their welcome.

[emperior]

And the reveal Goku still had a ace in the hole also feels out of character for him to not use it and preferring Potaras instead.

To be fair, Goku isn't gung-ho on the fusion either. He leaves the choice up to Vegeta after the Kaioshin offers the Potara, expecting Vegeta to turn it down. He then goes off to fight on his own again and only agrees to the fusion when Vegeta brings it up again, having been swayed by Trunks.

One can imagine that Goku would have brought out his perfected Blue form and Hakai had he continued to fight on his own without fusing. Though the impression from later scenes is that it's his first time actually attempting either, so it's not like they were sure-fire enough that he'd turn down fusion when Vegeta wanted to do it just to finish things on his own. (Oh, and/or they required being restored to full power by Trunks, which doesn't happen until later, now that I think about it. He's still drained from the Mafuba and earlier bouts at that point, iirc.)

The story also does a decent enough job avoiding prompting the question of why Goku wouldn't have attempted either perfected Blue or Hakai at earlier points. In their first battle, Vegeta has the situation entirely under control until the exact moment he doesn't, which is also right around when Goku is caught off guard by Zamasu's paralysis technique. In their second trip, they're also supposed to have things under control with Vegeta's training and the Mafuba, both of which should have been more reliable than Goku's unpracticed new aces. Hakai also zaps most of his energy, and the Mafuba is a more reliable technique for getting rid of the immortal Zamasu (theoretically) while post-training Vegeta deals with Black. He uses them essentially the first time he can/when last-resort untested techniques like that make sense.

I do agree that the anime has the more impactful/successful use of Vegetto, though. I think Goku's Hakai is also a good call for a climactic beat of the actual fighting portion of the finale, but it sure leaves Vegetto with nowhere to go as a plot element. Then again, it's also fine to just have some fun asides in DB fights, as long as they don't overstay their welcome.

In the manga Vegetto serves as the reveal that Zamasu’s fusion too has a time limit. Also it’s not like Vegetto is that useful in the anime too, considering there’s no hint whatsoever that he weakened up Zamasu for Trunks.

Vegetto is basically fanservice in both versions but at least in the manga, in my opinion, it feels like he helps the plot progress a little more as he at least stalls for some time.

[TobyS]

• Zamas, in his rage, now commits to destroying the whole Galaxy, completely overturning his putative moral stance on why he intends to eliminate the mortals in the first place. Having argued so hard about it with Gowas and proclaimed it to Vegeta, and having taken care to mention to Trunks that he wouldn't destroy the Earth, he's now just become a thoughtless destroyer, worse than any barbarian mortal in his senseless charge towards desecration of the Cosmos. That this isn't something just said on the spur of the moment is shown once he's regained his composure and says "This planet is a pain. I'm going to wipe it out." It's an interesting move for the depiction of Zamas, and I think it's the ultimate payoff for the superficiality and falseness I mentioned as key to the character a while back - finally, he's false to himself. It seems fitting.

Yeah I wonder if he killed them all without destroying the planet out of spite at this point, like it's for sure showing he's cracking either way but I do wonder if it was a punitive spiteful threat.

• Interesting that when Zamas restores himself, the Potara is restored with his body immediately, rather than when he restores his clothes.

Yeah that's weird it doesn't break the fusion to break the earrings and he only needs one to use the time ring, I always sorta felt you couldn't whip em up on demand but then the kais always show back up with them an arc later so it can't be too hard to make em.

• The fact that Zamas has used all his time by this point means that Goku must have held him off for something like 20 minutes.

I wondered about this, Zamasu fuses first and there's a little delay before Vegito is formed, it'd be more logical from a powerscaling perspective if Veggetto was the one who held out the lions share of it. Does it say how long Vegetto was fused for.
Then you have perfected Blue fight him till he defuses.
Personally if Veggetto used so much power it forced him to defuse early I can kinda see that Zamasu might have defused early too putting out the kind of power required to resist Veggetto or perfected blue...

• The de-fusion of Zamas is suitably disgusting and distorted. I mentioned last time that the times in the arc where it seems that the heroes are most likely to overcome Black and Zamas are times when they are divided from each other, figuratively and literally. We had this in 超 #22, where Zamas is briefly divided from, and turned against, Black, and this was overcome by achieving greater unity than ever through the fusion. Now we have it in the much more literal sense of Zamas and Black being split off from each other, which gives Trunks the opening to forcibly separate them in this moment of weakness and (apparently) kill Black.

I wonder what would happen if Trunks didn't strike here, I assume they'd eventually stick back together as a result of the bound souls or whatever. I don't think Trunks helped them, it just looked like Trunks was successful and then not as a bait and switch and to give stakes and stuff. It works well because it subverts the trope of characters standing around doing nothing. Trunks looks like an efficient badass he hasn't been since Freeza or killing the future androids so much. It's good. He doesn't need a bullshit powerup with an ugly AF one off form. He's given something to do anyway.

• The dismemberment and piecemeal restoration of Zamas is suitably grotesque - I get the feeling we probably wouldn't have been shown it in quite this graphic detail if it weren't a given that he was going to come right back from it. Try as I might, though, I can never see the 'Monaka Black' version from the interstitial represented in any of the crowd panels in the next chapter...

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here? Your version doesn't have the funny page showing he did go after Monaka after all and didn't care about the nipples as first assumed? It's chapter 18 if you were wondering.

Zamas says he will chase them wherever they go, even into the past. Shin tells him that's impossible for the Ring of Time, but Zamas reveals he doesn't need it - he has taken the Time Machine developed in Universe 12, which Gowas told him about! He can go back to the past and eliminate all the mortals - and he'll start in the reality the heroes all came from...They can't escape. He tells them to give up and let him kill them now.

This was great writing, we have universal zamas bleeding into the main universe to be a threat in the anime but it never made sense that he'd merge with anything but his own universe, let alone other timelines, you can say it was the time ring allowing it but he should appear in the equivalent age in the main time not in front of Kuririn and Piccolo or whatever. Once again anime fans ignore a way the manga is better and cleaner and just more logical.

It's a shame the only way it's cooler is in Xenoverse where he's bleeding into the time nest, saying he's forgotten one Kaioshin after all. But you could have multi-zamasu threaten Chronoa through the Patroller still for the same effect. AFAIK the anime basically made nothing of the U12 timeline whereas this kind of gives it a point beyond the "ah it makes sense the z team aren't to first and only people to mess with time travel ever" Fun fact this is why the main marvel earth was christened 616 in an old captain Britain issue, "because it'd be hard to believe our universe just so happens to be number 1". But beyond that the anime makes no further use of that timeline existing.

Zeno appears! And lands on His face. The Zamases are terrified at His presence, as He dusts Himself off. Goku quickly explains that he called Zeno, and that he's a friend from another timeline. Zeno looks around, and asks what has happened; Goku blames the petrified Zamases. Zeno is annoyed. Goku asks if He wants to erase them - Zeno agrees; a world like this should disappear. Goku is startled - he didn't expect this! He runs, tells everyone to flee, and the heroes escape with the Rings of Time and Trunks's Time Machine (Goku and Vegeta grab on to the outside). The Zamases try to run, but it's no use - Zeno erases everything, and they all die abruptly, mourning the unfinished plan. The Ring of Time connected to Trunks's reality shatters - his timeline is gone.

The way he lands on his face combined with his inherent character design is so funny and disarming, diffuses the tension.
Then we have the "hah fuck you zamas" when Goku 'cleverly' talks him into interfering. In a more cerebral series Goku would feel some kind of guilt or something about his role in accidentally baiting Zeno to destroy more then he wanted to.

I think it fits really well that this arrogant pompous zamasu is killed so unceremoniously, we only have his word for it that he's the kind of guy who'd deserve a more spectacular end.

Also I don't know if anyone's pointed this out before, but I find it interesting that Goku has to repeatedly learn "there's always someone above you" to stay humble, and he's humble enough to take the lesson each time, Zamas is like a foil to this, he's declared irrevocably he's the greatest god to ever live so he's taught the lesson finally and lethally that that is not the case.

It does make you wonder what their plan would have been, I guess they expected zenos to not notice and could move to one of the other timelines each time a curious zeno went looking around or called the GoDs in for something only to have them not arrive.

I do wonder why Shin and Gowasu are able to time ring out but none of the Zamasus are, none of the multi zamases are wearing it, but when single zamasu met black he put his away in the box, summoning the box is not a kaioshin assistant only ability so it's not like he lost it upon fusion. Black must have used his to get to Trunks time but afaik we never see it.

I guess it's something to do with Zeno primarily aiming at him, but you think they'd kaikai out, perhaps they were too surprised and frightened, or Zeno was kind of aiming more at them primarily.

My little headcanon is the furthest away of these zamasus was the one who managed to get the time ring and escape getting slightly burned by the erasure field in the process, this is the Zamasu we see in super dragonball heroes (unless he's the Cell timeline/Unseen/U12 guy timeline zamasu.

Trunks and Mai ask Bulma if they can return to an earlier point in their own timestream; Bulma isn't sure, but to Beerus's consternation, Whis reveals it's possible. Shin says if he doesn't die in the battle with Dabura, Beerus will survive and can help if Zamas appears again. Goku asks if he can destroy him - he can't, but they have something else that can deal with immortals... Beerus tell's Trunks he'll let it slide, this time, and tells him to make it count. Two days later, Trunks and Mai prepare to leave. Shin offers him a place on his world, but Trunks graciously refuses, saying he will likewise renounce his position as Shin's apprentice once he's beaten Dabura and Babidi.

I wonder why Trunks gives up the ability to heal, seems a huge waste, but perhaps he feels guilty using it without fulfilling the duty. He probably just wants to retire with Mai, probably some saiyan pride in wanting to achieve the power to protect his new home on his own.

My headcanon is the new duplicate Trunks will be the one in Xenoverse, (super trunks is too strong) perhaps even being snatched before ever meeting the incoming Super Trunks. Future Trunks might not have met Mai yet it's unclear, so he wouldn't miss her going off and doing XV stuff. Poor future Mai has no BF but alas.

• I've mentioned this various times already (and I may be overstating my case), but I really like how Shin is pretty much always ready to act in this arc, even though he's completely useless from a straightforward 'fighting power' perspective. I appreciate scenes like this, when the sheer outpouring of power from the main characters has completely failed (even made the situation worse), and they stand paralysed with fear, and people like Shin butt in (impatiently, even) and take the initiative to act usefully. We've seen it before (as in 超 #21), and maybe it's just that he's used to being scared and outclassed so that the hopelessness of the situation affects him less than Vegeta or Goku (who are arguably less used to the feeling), but I do enjoy reminders that the other players show their worth in ways like this, through character, and not just power.

I agree, it's about a kaioshin and it makes sense, he went against Buu without waking Beerus up so it's in character for him to be weaker but brave enough to intervene. I kinda wish he was still kibitoshin he'd have been more useful here but alas.

• "If you want a vision of the future, imagine Zamas stamping on a mortal face - forever." All of the Zamases control the Ring of Time, so they can infest the parallel Universes; as Shin says, however, the Ring of Time can't travel to a point in the past (relative to where its user came from, I suppose that means). The mention of Universe 12's Time Machine is an interesting way of bringing the whole Time Travel/Parallel Universes theme full circle, but technically, by using it to eliminate mortals 'in the past', what he'd really be doing is just creating additional parallel timelines where there aren't any mortals from an earlier point in that reality's existence; he'd still have to erase the mortal life that exists in the 'present' - and even then, he wouldn't be able to erase the mortals from all points in all timestreams; they'd've needed to be there in the first place to be destroyed. The gross inflation of Zamas's grandiose plans, so that their actual achievement is out of reach (if one thinks about it for a few minutes), is entirely characteristic of the man. He'd have to content himself with newly-created realities and his own future going forward being devoid of mortals (and full of Zamases, I'm sure).

Sick literary reference with the Zamasu face stomp thing.
See I don't think that's the case, as long as they don't go back to before the present in the main timeline they wouldn't split, furthermore they've kinda clarified that it's not any time travel that splits timelines, it's specifically making a big enough paradox.
(aside: That's even how it works in Xenoverse small changes fix themselves/remotely, you just have to return stuff 'close enough')

his Vegeta went off, uncaring about his dependents, into his final fight with the Androids, and the absence was keenly felt by both Trunks and the Bulma of that time; Trunks came to see Vegeta for what he was, but now, Vegeta has changed, and their parting at what is prospectively Vegeta's final fight now restores their bond. But it's also another failure for Trunks, who has stated his intent of protecting Vegeta for Bulma's sake (since he remembers her sadness in being without him) in 超 #23, but now is going to be thrown back onto the old partnership. Of course, Vegeta will get his payoff for this in the tearful reunion with Bulma later in this issue.[/list]

I never liked this, Vegeta doesn't become a not total piece of shit till Trunks death in the Cell games/Buu saga.
She barely had any time with future vegeta who was a way worse person. I kinda hate this, Future Bulma should miss Yamcha if anything.

• I do enjoy the mischievous look on Goku's face when he pushes the button. I really feel he's getting a kick out of (1) Having an Ace-in-the-Hole of outrageous power, and (2) Just upending things for the Hell of it. He'll show a similar Devil-May-Care brinksmanship when he pushes the button again at the end of the next issue, to go and see Zeno. To have the ruler of everything at your beck and call, and to be able to frighten anyone with it to boot, is too much power (particularly for someone like Goku)...

Yeah people say he's ooc in super but I was re-reading DB and there's a mischievous side to Goku, like when he scares Bulma with a skull in the pirate cave, that Z kinda lacks, yeah he's grown up but it shows a more active mind, I can actually buy this sneaky mischievous Goku being a fighting genius on the low in a way I actually don't buy Gormless Z Schemel goku being one.

• Having talked around this a bit already, I guess I have to assume that the destruction of the Ring of Time for this timeline is probably more symbolic than functional, since Goku is capable of returning to that timeline to fetch Zeno using the Time Machine - though there's literally nothing else there, it still 'exists' as a destination. And I assume that, when Trunks and Mai return to an earlier point in that timestream, the Ring of Time would re-appear to correspond to the changed timeline that Trunks would be creating?

• It's interesting that people can simply hang on to the Time Machine and go with it (I wonder - if Cell had known that, might he have tried to frighten some random Human into pushing the button for him while he clung on to the outside?). I like how Goku's Time-travelsickness reasserts itself with a vengeance; he previously had a mild case from looking out of the window in 超 #18, but now is completely debilitated.

Yeah it could be only that space immediately around Zeno still exists and even that ceased after he's bought back to the present it would go too. It's weird Goku and Trunks can be in that void, is there air? Cold? Heat? pressure? I guess it could have all the oxygen that was on/around earth still there for a while till it floats off, weird.

A new ring would appear going into the box, that would go to what we consider a similar timeline but it's not the same time or the same ring really, we don't know if it'd fill that little empty slot or go into the next empty slot down on the box, do all the rings shift to the left? lol. we don't know the mechanics.

I personally didn't like the hanging on to the machine business. I'd have thought you'd get ripped apart in the time warp or risk falling off into random/space time. Why not make a time platform if you don't need the little seat and bubble, I guess Goku gets even sicker, perhaps android saga base people wouldn't survive clinging on, it feels odd but I guess there's no way round shoving that many people in.

My idea was the bring back the watch that Bulma made that shrinks people. That way they could have brought Piccolo and Gohan and stuff.

• I still don't love the hand-waving of that issue about 'not being able to go back again', but that's because I don't like that it was set up as a 'problem' in the first place, not because it's summarily resolved here - in fact, I quite like the gag where Pilaf is the one to figure out the mechanics of time travel, and Goku just says "I didn't know you were this smart...", which is an enjoyable reference to all the half-baked robots and uselessly elaborate tech Pilaf has had at his disposal in his past Dragon Ball outings. He's always considered himself a "grand scientist" with a "genius intellect", so it's fun to see that conceit usefully deployed for a change.

Yeah I like that this gives a character beat for Pilaf, and I like my interpretation that the fact he's being so helpful without being ordered shows he's starting to become domesticated and loyal to the main cast.

I also like the implication that "necessity is the mother of all invention" or whatever and that Future Bulma is smarter then the present one who's done nothing but sit with her thumb up her ass since the Cell saga. Present Bulma has been intellectually slacking and Pilaf beating her out in usefulness is a way to show it.

• I find the resolution of the Zeno plot thread to be very satisfying - it's just such a tidy closed loop of plotting, which stands out to me in an arc that has sometimes verged on the overwrought; it's also one of those 'Goku's unusual insight' moments that Dragon Ball gives us at various points, which I tend to find enjoyable. Of course, this will also serve to be one of the necessary causes of the next arc, where both of them will reinforce upon each other that they're bored of the Universes and want to erase a bunch, so of course there's something a little more sinister about the whole thing, which (as everyone's been insisting to Goku) stands as of a piece with Zeno's adorable purity.

• On that note, we get the Grand Priest's promise to visit Universe 7 one day. In the current context of the Moro arc, where the possibility that the Grand Priest might be provoked to anger by the loss of Merus lingers in the background, this promise might now be read as a threat.

Iirc the anime doesn't have Goku reminding them about the tournament just as they were about to erase the lower universes. This works brilliantly in explaining why the other timelines aren't erased already, especially the ones which are further ahead then this point in time, it only comes about as a conversation had by the two zenos, who only exist here.
Yeah it'll be a nice callback if the Priest visits but I guess we don't know enough to say how that'll play out in the future.

• Beerus admits that Hakai cannot destroy immortals in any case, but Whis implies that the Gods of Destruction have a technique that is more convenient that the Mafuba (presumably, therefore, a sealing technique) - this may be a reference to Toriyama's statement that Beerus sealed the Elder Kaioshin in the Z-Sword[/url]. Toriyama often uses tropes of 'sealed-away demons' in his works - Piccolo Daimao, Majin Buu, and the demon from the first issue of Neko Majin all immediately spring to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

• As I mentioned before, the statement of having the power of two Trunks comes out to play again (having last emerged when playing video games). I still think it's a slightly strange application.

I like to think the universe seed prison place was the place they were referencing, just for fun, could be like the sword thing too, it's better then the mafuba in that the zsword is harder to break then a rice cooker I guess.

[Magnificent Ponta]

The Super Re-Read: Chapters 25 - 28 (Plus Bonus Chapter #3!)
Part 2 (Chapters 27, 28, and Bonus Chapter #3)



Welp, it's time for another go around at The Super Re-Read, and we're passing on from the Future Trunks arc to the beginning of the Tournament of Power arc. I think this arc in particular has been defined by the Anime version of its depiction, so it'll be interesting (for me, anyway) to re-read this with 'manga eyes', and see how I feel about it (and how you feel about it, re-readers).

As a note, I'd like to thank those who mentioned that they like to read this even when they don't have the time to post, or feel they don't have anything to contribute, but enjoy this thread nonetheless - it is appreciated to know that people here enjoy the Super Re-Read, and particularly as personal circumstances recently made doing this a bit of a slog, it was heartening to see people saying that they enjoy it - I'm grateful. I will say, however, that firstly, there's never a time where a 'window has passed' for commenting on anything that's interested you so far - this is, after all, something of a retrospective - and secondly, any and all comments about what caught your eye, or what interested you, is worth talking about, as far as I'm concerned. I don't expect lengthy posts covering the whole thing, as is my personal tendency - part of the reason for doing it the way I do it is to provide various points here and there, which might interest anyone to pick out, talk more about, and think with. Really, the goal is to get people to appreciate the Dragon Ball Super manga, in both senses of the word (both to celebrate the good, and to appraise the work overall). I will certainly enjoy seeing anything from members here who are willing to devote the time, so I'd also like to say a big 'thank you' to those who have found the time to post at various points so far. I may not reply to all of them - writing things up for each instalment takes up much of my time on Kanzenshuu generally - but I do read and appreciate the contributions y'all make (including the two that appeared while I was prepping this for posting!).

Before diving back in, I'd like to note the usual credit and thanks to Kanzenshuu, its contributors, and its progenitors for creating the amazing resources of information that the Super Re-Read has used so far.

Alrighty then, let's get re-reading!

Chapter 27 - Training and Everyday Life, and…/Life, Training and More
21 August 2017

Spoiler:

Time has passed since the fight with Zamas, and the Earth continues to enjoy a time of peace. Goku has returned to farming, dropping his produce at market, and heads home - his state-of-the-art air truck occasions comment. He notices a broken-down truck, and offers its driver a lift to the nearest station - but then bandits appear! It was all a ruse - they want Goku's swish new truck. They get annoyed when Goku doesn't catch on, and try to beat him up - naturally, Goku makes quick work of them, but he notices the bullets left a mark on him - he's getting soft...He hands the bandits into the Police, who give him a sizeable reward! Goku's pleased: Chi-Chi will let him get back to training for this money. He tries to contact Whis to set it up - but Whis isn't responding...

Over on Beerus's planet, Whis's staff flashes unanswered...because he's busy training Vegeta. He's having no trouble with Vegeta's attacks, of course, but he notes that Vegeta's getting sharper. He vanishes, and appears behind Vegeta; Vegeta notices...and punches ahead - he's correctly guessed where Whis was really going to appear! Whis catches the punch, but congratulates Vegeta on his progress. Vegeta brushes it off, and continues to train. Observing from a distance, Beerus wonders why Vegeta's so 'into it'. The Oracle Fish says it must be because Goku was stronger than him in the last battle. Beerus dismisses their rivalry as stupid, and mocks the Oracle Fish's prediction that they would rival him, as he starts to go off to bed. Oracle Fish maintains the prediction is true, which annoys Beerus. He calls Vegeta, and challenges him to a fight again. As Whis's recommendation, Vegeta accepts. As the two face off, Whis learns that Beerus took this unusual course because of the Oracle Fish's words.

Vegeta goes SSjB, and attacks. Beerus catches Vegeta's punch, gives a backhanded compliment, and strikes back. The fight continues, and Beerus is easily on top, and sends Vegeta underwater with a final tail slap - even Whis is surprised at how quick the fight was. But Vegeta emerges again, concentrates...and seals his aura - the same thing Goku did against Zamas! Whis is surprised, and Beerus is excited - the fight continues... and Beerus notices that Vegeta is doing much better. Vegeta continues to press the offensive, and even puts Beerus under some pressure. Whis notes that Goku isn't ahead of Vegeta any more. Oracle Fish asks if Beerus is fighting seriously - Whis says no, but he should before Vegeta lands a hit... too late. But Vegeta only angers Beerus, who then defeats him instantly in a huge explosion of power! Beerus says it'll take Vegeta a million years to become his rival, but gives him credit for his progress. Whis consoles Vegeta in his loss, but says he still thinks before acting - he needs to train his body to respond of its own accord. Then, he'll be able to take on any enemy.

Vegeta says he's equal to Goku now, but won't follow after him any more - he'll get to the top first. Whis offers to give him more training, but Vegeta refuses - he needs to get back to Earth now, and he won't be coming back for a while... but the Oracle Fish appears, telling Whis there's a call waiting for him. It's Goku, of course, who's trying to tempt him with Daifuku to get him to recommence his training - plus, he's at Capsule Corp now; maybe he could bring Vegeta? He's put out when Whis says Vegeta is already present, but puzzled Vegeta's leaving... until it turns out that Bulma is pregnant, and about to give birth soon! Goku doesn't get why Vegeta's come back, though (provoking Vegeta to call him a horrible father). Goku gives Whis his entrance fee, and they fly to Beerus's planet, where they chow down. Goku asks for a more advanced lesson, but Whis demurs - Beerus goes off to bed, but Goku wants to talk about the inter-Universe tournament. Beerus tells him to forget it, but Goku won't drop it, and the exchange escalates when he pulls out the Zeno button - even Whis recommends not pushing the idea, and Beerus insists on not presuming on his familiarity with the terrifying Zeno...but then Goku pushes the button, and vanishes!!

Chapter Notes

• Apart from 超 #1, I think this is the only real 'slice of life' issue in Dragon Ball Super so far. Toyotarou has mentioned that the Gohan-focused 'slice of life' bit from the start of the Buu arc is his favourite part of the original manga, so it's nice to see him get an opportunity to do something in this vein for a full issue - and after the relentlessness of the second part of the Future Trunks arc, it's also a nice opportunity to let things breathe a bit.

• I want to know the name of the guy who picks up Goku's produce at market - simply because it's basically unheard of for Goku to have an association with someone he recognises on a mundane professional level. Who are you, man of mystery and vegetables

• I quite like the topography of this part of the world as shown in the chapter - seems reminiscent of the very first chapters of Dragon Ball. I assume that's deliberate.

• Goku's new truck is called a 'Gull Wing'; this means the doors are hinged at the top so that they open upwards (like the DeLorean from Back to the Future) - this appears to strictly refer to the storage compartment, which we see open in this way earlier, rather than the passenger/driver compartment. Some vehicles have been shown to have gull wing doors before (like Boss Rabbit's car in DB #17). Goku mentions that Bulma gave it to him so he could work harder - an unusual 'capital investment', but Bulma has previously been critical of Goku and Vegeta for doing nothing but working out (in DB #426), and will do so again at the end of this arc, in 超 #42 - it is fitting that Goku catches himself after telling the bandits to go get a job... On another note, I guess he must've stashed the bandits in the storage compartment when taking them to the Police, so they'd've been able to appreciate it some more from the inside...

• The fact that one of the bullets marked Goku's arm has elicited one of those three-minute uproars that that fandom is prone to, this time from the power-scalers. If it had done actual harm, I think I'd take the point, but the effect of firearms is not entirely consistent. Goku has always been bulletproof, ever since Bulma shot him in the face in DB #1, and has only meaningfully been threatened by firearms in DB #66 (K.O'ed by the 'Hyper-Gun' while hungry) and DB #78 (a point-blank shotgun to the face while paralysed by Blue's powers). Otherwise, he has expressed discomfort, and shown marks from the shooting (mostly in comedy panels), but has been generally unaffected otherwise, so this is broadly in keeping.

• In fact, I quite like the comedy elements of the whole thing, particularly Goku laughing good-naturedly along with the bandits, and his surprised pleasure at having earned money as a reward for turning them in to the Police. I'm not sure how much Goku is given as a reward by the Police, but I like to think it's something of a karmic balancing-act for him giving that random young lady in West City 100,000 Zeni for pointing out the Police to him for the first time, back in DB #68.

• The sparring scene between Vegeta and Whis invites direct comparison with the Revival of F Promo Manga, which is the last time we saw this kind of encounter. It's revealing when there are similarities of framing and choreography (such as Vegeta's chasing flurry over the water, which has a direct comparator), because it actually does show that in a technical sense, Toyotarou's art has improved markedly since his first Dragon Ball Super offering, despite the rise in page count.

• Beerus tells Vegeta it has been a few years since they last fought - presumably a reference to 超 #3, which would likely have taken place 18th August 778(?) - which gives us a rough idea of how much time has passed now. We've had more than a year since the last time the Super Dragon Balls were used, in the Universe 6 Tournament, and we've had at least 10 months more than that to take us back to Battle of Gods. Whichever way you slice it, Super can't have covered less than 22 months by this point (at least 4 months from Battle of Gods to next use of the Dragon Balls, but probably more, + 6 months between Freeza's revival and his return, +12 months between uses of the Super Dragon Balls); with extra random time here and there, it's probable that the "few years" amounts to 2 years and some months.

• I enjoy the fight between Vegeta and Beerus - I think I slightly prefer the art from the first half, as Beerus's playfulness allows for some slightly more varied and interesting choreography generally. I think generally this is a good place for some favourite art: I really enjoy Vegeta's surprised face at getting tail-slapped by Beerus; I also really like the panels showing the wind-ups for Vegeta's powered-up punches whenever he uses them; but most of all, I love Beerus's face when he says, "Don't get cocky." It really demonstrates the fearsomeness that Beerus, generally a figure of fun, can 'turn on' when he wants (and thinking about it, this is probably shown sparingly so that moments like this land more impactfully).

• This is probably the closest we get to a plenary power-scaling for the coming arc - Beerus is overwhelmingly strong, as one might expect, but has more trouble with Vegeta in SSjB than he ever did with Goku in SSjG in 超 #4 (again, to be expected). Vegeta and Goku are now official equals, as Vegeta has spent months training, Goku hasn't, and they can both use the Completed power of SSjB with facility, and this strength puts them on the level of other Gods of Destruction (who are, implicitly, much weaker than Beerus).

• The reference to Ultra Instinct makes its first appearance in the proper Super manga run here (or, if you prefer, the first appearance since the Revival of F promo). I tend to read Vegeta's statement that he's "sick of following after" Goku not only as a resolution to definitely surpass him, but to achieve his full potential in a way that befits him (this reading is heavily influenced by 超 #40 and 超 #52, it should be said). It's interesting that both Goku and Vegeta will, in the space of a couple of Chapters, both echo the sentiment that they have a long way to go - Vegeta has learned it by defeat in combat, and Goku learns it by observation in 超 #29; this seems fitting, as it is a precursor to how they attain their respective maximums in the Tournament of Power - Vegeta will evolve SSjB partly through rage at his difficulties in fighting, whereas Goku will be led decisively towards Ultra Instinct by observing Roshi (though I do really enjoy Vegeta trying to 'Ultra Instinct' his laundry in the interstitial).

• Is Daifuku classy? I have no idea whether this is a legitimate opinion, or Goku's hickishness on show.

• It seems Capsule Corp decided it would be a good PR move to use actual Human receptionists, rather than the slightly bizarre robots of DB #69.

• Bulma's pregnancy with Bra is, of course, necessary by this point - Daizenshuu #7 apparently gives conflicting information with respect to her birth year - her biography declares it to be Age 778 (and so the year before Pan), but the timeline declares it to be Age 780, and so younger than Pan. It seems Dragon Ball Super is going with the latter interpretation (though whether we're still just about in Age 780 is a bit of a question mark).

• Goku reveals that he doesn't know anything about pregnancy, birth, or motherhood - in this chapter, he tells Vegeta he has no idea when Gohan or Goten were born (on the latter, he gets a pass for being dead, I guess), and doesn't recognise an instance of late-term pregnancy - in 超 #30, he will assume that Whis's intervention in Bulma's birthing of Bra is "how Chi-Chi did it", never having seen a baby born before. Toriyama has conceded that, despite Vegeta being more typically aggressive than Goku is, in family terms, he is actually the more unusual Saiyan; it's therefore unsurprising that Whis refers to these as "Earth customs", despite the fact that neither of them are Earthlings.

• I think the escalating conversation beats between Goku and Beerus might be my favourite part of the chapter, as Goku's persistence is progressively heightened by Beerus's increasingly aggravated refusals to satisfy him, leading up to the worst possible conclusion ('let's talk about it' - 'forget about it' - 'let's set a schedule' - 'we don't need that' - 'here's the button, I'll go ask him' - 'don't talk to him, he's terrifying' - 'it'll be fine' - 'don't get cocky' - 'bye' - 'aaargh'). I really enjoy that, and there's a double pay-off in that he also concerns and surprises the otherwise fairly unflappable Whis (though Whis has looked more surprised than usual in this particular chapter generally...).

Chapter 28 - The 12 Gods of Destruction/The Gods of Destruction from All 12 Universes
21 September 2017

Spoiler:

Beerus stresses hard over the fact that Goku's gone to see Zeno, and Whis reminds him that this whole thing is down to the original tournament with Universe 6...Meanwhile, in the Kingdom Palace, the two Zenos play chess with each other, using the Universes as pieces - aren't there too many? They agree, and ask the Grand Priest how the Universes are developing. It turns out 1 and 12 are doing well, but the others may even have regressed a bit. The Zenos agree that 4 is enough, and the 8 that are less developed can be erased. The Grand Priest is about to execute Their will, but then Goku appears. He is admitted to Their presence, where he asks about the promise of the Inter-Universe tournament that the Zeno from this reality made. That Zeno admits that He forgot, and the Zenos agree They can't do that if They erase the Universes - so Zeno agrees to do it soon! The Grand Priest suggests 5 'tiks' (40 hours), but when Goku starts to hurry off to prepare, he is stopped. The Gods of Destruction must be informed first...

The Grand Priest transmits an emergency signal to all 12 Guide Angels - we're treated to scenes from Universes 5 (where the God of Destruction is meditating), 4 (where the God of Destruction is playing video games and snacking), 2 (where the God of Destruction is obsessing over her own beauty), 10 (where the God of Destruction is chewing out Gowas over the Zamas business, and for getting involved with Beerus), 9 (where the God of Destruction is hesitantly calculating whether he can perhaps destroy a ruined civilisation), and 11, all responding to the call - Belmod, the God of Destruction from Universe 11, is partying with some harlequin girls over the latest daily 'anniversary' of his ascension to the position of God of Destruction, when his Guide Angel, Marcarita, intervenes - one of the girls threatens Marcarita, only for Belmod to destroy her for the impudence; he was going to destroy the planet anyway - but, Marcarita explains, they're in a rush now...the Grand Priest asks the Guide Angels to bring both their God of Destruction and their Kaioshin to the Palace, and tells Goku they should wait a minute... A minute later (after a scene where the Universe 10 Gods stress over the possibility that 'they' heard about Zamas), the Grand Priest has confirmation from all Universes that their Gods are ready (except Universe 8, whose Kaioshin is 'indisposed', and will come soon) - the Grand Priest calls them all in at once, and they appear!

The various Gods wonder, worry, and bicker about the purpose of the call - and are perplexed at the presence of two Zenos - Universe 11 has another attendee; the Grand Priest asks about him. Belmod explains that he intends to retire soon, and this man, Toppo, is his replacement - he brought him for experience. The Grand Priest encourages Toppo to become a great God of Destruction. Then, Universe 8 is admitted. Without preamble, the Grand Priest announces a Tournament of Power between all the Universes - Beerus and Champa cringe at Goku's success in making this happen, and the God of Destruction from Universe 3 (Mosco) lets out a rude beep, which his Guide Angel smooths over. It turns out that the Zeno from the future has never seen such a tournament - so the Grand Priest proposes an Exhibition Match. He snaps his fingers, and makes a fighting stage...and tells the Gods of Destruction to take the stage! The Gods are perplexed, but comply; there are no rules for the Battle Royale, as the Zenos will figure those out from what they see in this match - but whoever doesn't give it their all will be terminated! Some of the Gods are worried at their combat-readiness, and Beerus is angsty, but Quitela (the Mouse God of Destruction from Universe 4) says they can finally settle which of them is stronger - he beat Beerus once before (at arm-wrestling, not combat, as Beerus testily counters, getting more aggravated).

Goku calls out encouragement, which tips Beerus over the edge - he yells that this is all Goku's fault in the first place... which just gives the other Gods another reason to target him! They all bear a grudge against him already - Whis explains that Beerus imperilled all the Universes a long time ago, when he fell asleep for 50 years during an Inter-Universe hide and seek tournament: Zeno was furious, and it needed a huge effort from all the other Gods to placate Him. The Gods start to gang up on Beerus, who taunts them for their weakness - the match begins! Several of the Gods attack Beerus, but he dodges them all! Whis explains that his body can act of it's own accord...up to a point (Beerus gets caught by Mosco). The Gods see their opportunity and attack, but Beerus forces his way out and they attack Mosco. They see him up high and attack...Champa?! Beerus was hiding under Mosco! He fires off a large blast, which hits its target...but Sidra (God of Destruction from Universe 4) made a barrier to protect them! Belmod thanks him by kicking him in the head - it's all against all, after all. The match is starting to heat up, and Goku's getting more and more excited..!

Chapter Notes

• The Zenos are playing some divine version of chess, using the 12 Universes as pieces. Each piece seems inscribed with a particular glyph. It doesn't seem to be related to the designs that the Gods of Destruction and Guide angels wear, but perhaps bears the vaguest resemblance to the figures on the obelisks at the Universe 6 Tournament (e.g., 超 #8) and the Godtube search bar (超 #17) - still, it's not at all obvious.

• The Grand Priest mentions that Universe 1 is the best of all possible Universes (suck it, Pangloss); I'm intrigued by his reference of "recent, rapid growth" in Universe 12 - I can't help but wonder whether it's connected in some way to their discovery of Time Travel (mentioned in 超 #17), whether as a consequence of their rapid growth (i.e., their growth allowed things like Time Travel to be discovered) or as a driver of their rapid growth (i.e., their Time Travelling shenanigans managed to create a better, stronger, lovinger Universe). Gowas mentioned that Universe 12 developed Time Travel "long ago", and he knows of the Rings of Time created by their work, which he last looked at more than 400 years before taking on Zamas as his understudy, so I guess any connection here depends on what the Grand Priest regards as "recent".

• It's interesting that the Grand Priest is the one to make the suggestion that the Universes should be erased, and unlike Zeno's guards, he is completely unconcerned by it. This is probably the dark side of the Grand Priest's easy-going nature, as he is generally not bothered by either things that don't matter or things that really do. He's very casual, and more than a little sinister, in simply threatening the erasure of Gods of Destruction who don't give their all in the Exhibition Match, and even more so in 超 #30, when he announces that the prize for the winning Universe is that "we don't do anything to them". The most interesting thing is that the Grand Priest is able to speak directly for Zeno, seemingly without conferring with Him - for instance, in 超 #29, he immediately sets the rules for Goku and Toppo's match, and is able to declare what Zeno's wishes are. Presumably this 'simpatico' relationship between them explains why the Grand Priest is never intimidated or alarmed by anything Zeno says or does, and is able to lead Him/Them in what They are already considering doing.

• The Zenos propose erasing 8 Universes and leaving 4 to observe. 超 #30 will make clear that Universes 1, 12, 5, and 8 (two sets of paired Universes) would have been spared here.

• I enjoy the cuts to the Gods of Destruction of the various Universes. There's cool little tidbits in all of these scenes:
  • Universe 5's God of Destruction (Arack) departs from the Egyptian design theme on his planet, which seems more Mayan-inspired. Unlike Beerus's planet, which is encircled by heavenly clouds (see, e.g., 超 #27), Arack's planet seems to be in ordinary space. Perhaps, like Earth's sanctuary (see 超 #31), the planets for the Gods of Destruction can move around?
  • Unlike Arack's meditative posture, Quitela (God of Destruction of Universe 4) follows less high--minded pursuits in his mouse-hole planet, messily snacking and playing mouse-themed video games on his Godtube-type thing (for want of an official name, I'll call it a Goddlebox). He appears to be using a wireless controller.
  • Heles (God of Destruction for Universe 2) obsesses over her own beauty; presumably she is based quite squarely on a stereotype of Cleopatra, thus giving a slight twist on the Egyptian design theme many of the Gods of Destruction have - the Hellenised nature of the design motif is shown most clearly in her tunic-clad servants. Also, it seems that Toyotarou has loosely referenced ancient Egyptian thrones in Heles's seat - the sloping arms, and the lion's feet at the base of the chair legs, seem to evoke features of Tutankhamun's golden throne. The other features of her depiction evoke vanity - most notably the giant mirror (who is the fairest of them all?), but also the water feature off to the side. I presume this is a bath rather than an indoor pool, thus fixing the sense of pampering for the reader, but this may also be a nod to one of the most famous data about Cleopatra, namely that she would regularly bathe in asses' milk to enhance the beauty of her skin (though this is not reflected in the colour version of the manga, where it's just water).
  • Over in Universe 10, we get Rumsshi chewing out Gowas for the whole Zamas affair, and particularly for getting help from Beerus. Obviously, Rumsshi's design strongly resembles the Hindu God Ganesha (and for what it's worth, I find it to be the most memorable design of the 12) - Rumsshi presumably hates Beerus the most for the same reason that most of the other Gods of Destruction hold a grudge against him (as the Chapter notes, his falling asleep in the Inter-Universe hide and seek tournament infuriated Zeno and so other Gods had to make a special effort to placate Him), but saying he hates Beerus "the most" seems to indicate that Rumsshi isn't exactly fond of any of them. It's noteworthy that Gowas is intimidated by Rumsshi - off the top of my head, I can't think of a time where Shin seems this intimidated of Beerus - he even talks back at him in 超 #30, blaming him for being asleep too much.
  • The Universe 9 scene with Sidra is probably the most interesting of the various snippets from other Universes, for me, because it's a picture of a Universe where the God of Destruction is completely incapable of doing his job (due principally to hesitancy, it seems), and so underscores the real significance of the duty. Beerus is capricious and lazy, and so (as Whis will tell us in 超 #30) Universe 7 is second from bottom in terms of Mortal Level rankings. But Universe 9 is dead last out of them all. And (in the manga, at least) this seems to be due to the fact that Sidra basically doesn't want to do his job at all - even having calculated with complete certainty (and "regret", significantly) that a failed civilisation should be destroyed for the cosmic good, a gentle prompting from his Kaioshin makes Sidra second-guess himself to rework the whole thing to see whether they might be saved after all. Though Sidra knows what the duty of a God of Destruction is, he is loath to do it, and so we see the ruined image of a Universe without a functioning God of Destruction.
  • And finally, we have Belmod of Universe 11. I think a draft depiction of this scene had this take place in a swisher pad, rather than the raggedy jester aesthetic of the finished scene. Since we know from the dialogue that this isn't Belmod's planet (which we will see in 超 #30, dominated by a 'Big Top' circus tent), my guess is that the harlequin-style party girls and all the clownish stuff is what this planet imagines Belmod wants out of his visit, so that he doesn't blow up the planet (like the Bug-men and Beerus's multi-course meal, in 超 #1). In fairness, the room design is pretty much a duplicate of Belmod's planet (the floor is a bit different, and the table with the delicacies is also unique to this scene), so they do a good job.

• Belmod states this is the 87,910,715th day since he became a God of Destruction - this, of course, indicates that there has been at least one previous incumbent. I mentioned in a previous instalment that this would only amount to about 240,000 years if we were talking Earth days. Of course, it may relate to the 'days' in the King Calendar, which is mentioned later by the Grand Priest - in 40 hours' time, it will be 'day' 3,135,500,603; if that were equivalent to Earth days, then the whole Calendar would be about 8.6 million Earth years long so far - I guess it's an open question as to what span of time that Calendar is supposed to cover, relative to the age of the Universes (and if they correlate, then how old the Universes are supposed to be - as per DB #205, it's way more than 100 million years). If Belmod's 'days' are the 'days' of the King Calendar, he's been a God of Destruction for about 2% of it. In Human terms, however, Belmod has definitely been a God of Destruction for millions of years, as he will reminisce about the last time Beerus imperilled the Universes by courting the wrath of Zeno, which Whis explains took place before Shin became a Kaioshin. If Dragon World were the same age as our Universe (approx. 13.8 billion Earth years), and the King Calendar were fixed to the age of the Universes, and Belmod's reckoning of 'Days' is the King Calendar reckoning, then Belmod would have been God of Destruction for something like 387 million Earth years.

• It's quite the escalation for Marcarita to interrupt, one of the girls to threaten to shiv her, and then for Belmod to annihilate the girl. Marcarita's not that bothered; faintly amused, even. I understand Toyotarou originally wanted Belmod and Marcarita to be romantically involved; even without that element in the finished version, the pair still seem aligned (for want of a better word) in a way that, say, Beerus and Whis or Champa and Vados aren't. I feel like part of it's the design work (or at least, the associations I draw from it) - Belmod is, of course, a clown (by the way, am I the only one who sees a sly "twinning" of Belmod with Heles in that both are overly made up - Belmod with his clown paint, Heles with her cosmetics?), whereas Marcarita's bunches and unserious demeanour remind me, at least a little, of Harley Quinn.

• I enjoy the minor freak-out back in Universe 10, with Gowas futilely looking around at the totally empty courtyard to see if there happens to be a plausible gift lying around; also, Rumsshi threatening to crush him to death just gives me a mental image of him literally sitting on Gowas, which I find pretty funny.

• I quite enjoy Goku's background interactions with the Zenos in this Chapter - it seems They're trying to teach him Their cosmic chess while he waits for the Universes, but I particularly like the panel about a dozen pages on from that, where one of the Zenos is playfully hanging off Goku's bicep, while the other wants a turn.

• Apparently, Kaioshin excrete waste, as Universe 8's Ille has to use the bathroom. I can only assume that it was provoked by the Grand Priest's message.

• Favourite art: I find this issue more workmanlike than spectacular, but I do have a soft spot for the Grand Priest calling in (almost) all of the Gods and Angels of the respective Universes, and the double-page spread that has them in a line-up. If anything, it's a little bit of a shame that the two panels where they're called in aren't likewise in the spread, but I do think the whole thing achieves the 'wow' factor that Goku communicates to us, and it's a nice immediate comparison of the deities. I do also enjoy the panel later on after Beerus yells at Goku, where there's an awkward beat among the other Gods of Destruction.

• Given what Belmod was doing just prior to receiving the call from the Grand Priest (i.e. partying with some girls on a planet he was intending to destroy the next morning), I guess it's a little odd that Toppo, leader of a superheroing outfit like the Pride Troopers (and not very obviously a party dude), just happened to be with him. I guess Dyspo's right when he says "Life's a cakewalk for a God of Destruction Candidate!", in 超 #30...

• When the Grand Priest snaps his fingers to create the Exhibition Match stage, the Viz edition accidentally retains the Japanese sound-effect (so I assume it's a snapping of fingers...).

• I really do like the idea of the initial Exhibition Match being for the Gods of Destruction - it's logical, is choreographed well both as a fight and as a visual demonstration of what Goku's meant to be aiming for in Ultra Instinct, and it serves as a good enough explanation as to why only mortals end up representing their respective Universes in the real thing.

• Champa mentions that he hasn't trained in decades - Vados says he's been avoiding it, but there's also the possible connection with 超 #6, where Champa mentioned that he had been searching for the Super Dragon Balls for decades. Perhaps he's been using that hobby as an excuse not to train.

• Meanwhile, Beerus and Quitela bicker over which of them is strongest. On one level, it just reflects the natural animosity between cats and mice, which is why Quitela is always "picking a fight", but also Quitela appears to enjoy fighting generally - earlier, his video game appeared to be a fighting game; as the fighting escalates here, he says it's "getting more and more exciting"; and when the Grand Priest intervenes to stop the fight in 超 #29, Quitela seems a little crestfallen. The bickering also reveals that Quitela is perhaps physically stronger even than Beerus, and implies that they're the two main contenders for the most powerful God of Destruction from the 12.

• I think the Hide-and-Seek Tournament is probably a nod to the fact that in the Battle of Gods movie, Whis claimed that Beerus destroyed Kaio's planet after he lost a game of Hide-and-Seek. Toriyama has otherwise said that it was because he lost a racing video game (which received its due back in 超 #17), so I guess this covers all the bases. Beerus is just bad at games generally (another temperamental contrast with Quitela, for what it's worth). The grudge that seems to be borne by just about everyone else implies that all of the present set of Gods of Destruction were around at the time of the tournament, so they all dislike Beerus.

• I like the fact that Goku instinctively grasps (and seems to relate to) the idea that Beerus is regarded as a "troublemaker" by his peers - particularly since Beerus has just chewed Goku out for making trouble right now. As far as the other Gods are concerned, Universe 7 is a troublesome Universe generally, so it's unsurprising that what Beerus does and what his mortals do should be regarded in pretty much the same way. I guess Goku also instinctively appreciates this characteristic, as it was a key motivation for him staying dead in DB #417 (in the specific "I attract bad guys" kind of way).

• I find Beerus's dodging to be a little bit stiff in the execution, initially, but I still enjoy it; it's a cool moment for him to be targeted by all the other Gods and show he's up to it. Of course, Whis helpfully explains to Goku that Beerus's body is dodging on its own. While this links back to Ultra Instinct, of course, it is nevertheless made clear later (in 超 #39) that Beerus has never properly achieved the technique - he is amazed when Roshi pulls something like this out (even though it's a "far cry" from Ultra Instinct) and freaks out that Goku has achieved it before him, when Goku obtains to just the Omen stage of the technique - but the principles are basically the same for all three of them. When Goku goes all the way and fully demonstrates True Ultra Instinct in 超 #64, he mentions that he's not thinking about anything, and that he can dodge Moro's attacks because his body is making the decisions for him. Here and now, however, Beerus allows himself a moment of smugness that gets him caught; as Whis says, he hasn't mastered how to do it.

• I like the feint Beerus uses of hiding under Mosco and using Champa as a decoy to give him the opportunity to attack. I also think it's fitting that Sidra should be supreme at using barriers, of all things, as a character point - it underscores his unsuitedness for the role of God of Destruction, since the thing he's best at is protecting things.

• It's certainly very early in the arc, but I do like the direction it has taken overall - Goku has been spurred by sheer boredom into mixing things up, and boy has he - both by allowing the like-minded Zenos to talk about how it would be better to erase most of the Universes (though the one native to the 'Main Story' reality has childishly forgotten his promise to Goku back in 超 #13, and has arguably forgotten about Goku altogether, since he's willing to dispense with the Universe he's in), and by prodding them himself, despite the fact that by now he knows full well the sort of thing Zeno is about, having seen him erase Trunks's whole reality in 超 #26. But I do like the way it escalates - in a comical exchange fuelled by Beerus's grouchy attempts to shut Goku down, moving up through the gears as we get a full-on brawl between Gods of Destruction. As the arc is divided differently to the Future Trunks arc, which was more-or-less half set-up (超 #14-19), half main confrontation (超 #20-26), whereas this is more like one-third set-up (超 #27-32), two-thirds main confrontation (超 #33-42), it'll be interesting to see how different this makes the arc feel in terms of pacing and tone, and how the themes of the arc will come through and land. I'm looking forward to it.

Bonus Chapter 3
22 July 2017

Spoiler:

After the battle with Zamas, Trunks is hanging out in the present - Bulma's giving him and Mai rooms so they can live there. Kid Trunks is jazzed - they can stay forever! But then Gohan rounds the corner - he explains he's training in the Gravity Chamber, since no-one's asked him to help out lately; he doesn't want to get too rusty... But even so, maybe he doesn't need to, it's so peaceful - he figures Trunks's world must be peaceful too, with him to defend it? He'd love to visit - how long is Trunks staying? Trunks is reminded of the future he'd 'saved', is slightly triggered, and reveals (surprisingly) that they'll be going back in 2 or 3 days. He apologises that he can't show it to Gohan, but one day, for sure! Gohan mentions he wants to meet Trunks's Bulma, too, which triggers Trunks more - he agrees with Mai that they should return to the future, before the bad stuff happened, as Bulma berates a puzzled Gohan for his insensitivity...

Chapter Notes

• I don't have a great deal to say about this Bonus Chapter - judging from Trunks's clothes, it's set around the point in 超 #26 where Trunks and Goku return to pick up alternate-reality Zeno, so having seen his lost world, I guess it makes sense that Trunks would be more easily receptive to the idea that he has to go back to save it in some fashion. And it's fitting that he should be summoned back there by Gohan, all grown up and like a ghost from Trunks's own past.

• Kid Trunks's "Now we can hang out forever" line isn't sold as creepy, but...yeah. That said, I do love his cross face in the last panel now his 'big bro' has been taken from him

• So, we have Gohan saying that he's been doing gravity training, for the purpose of getting in shape and being useful for the next time he needs to fight - he has some familiarity with high-gravity conditions, as the Room of Spirit and Time has 10 times Earth's gravity (as Goku explained in DB #377). The gravity room was made for Vegeta back in DB #336, so it can go up to 300G; he's also shown using it in DB #429 at 150G, and most recently in 超 #17, where he trains Trunks as promised.

• Gohan mentions that no-one asks him to fight any more, and it's definitely true that Goku is reluctant to ask him to do it, as "he doesn't like fighting" - Goku's shut down Vegeta's suggestions on getting Gohan to come fight twice in the series, both in 超 #6 and 超 #30, but since 超 #39, Gohan's shown himself to still be in the upper tier of Earth warriors by sheer power.

• Gohan's inadvertent triggering of Trunks is the gag this Chapter runs with; there's not much else to say about it, other than that Bulma's line about Gohan being as insensitive as Goku chimes well with her previous comment in DB #426 - "You're so different from your dad in some ways...but you're just as dumb."

...Welp, I'm glad I set myself two weeks per full instalment now, because I really needed it for those 4 chapters! Anyway, over to you guys - Was there anything in particular that caught your eye, as we start out the Tournament of Power arc? What did you get out of your re-read?

[Cipher]

And finally, we have Belmod of Universe 11. I think a draft depiction of this scene had this take place in a swisher pad, rather than the raggedy jester aesthetic of the finished scene. Since we know from the dialogue that this isn't Belmod's planet (which we will see in 超 #30, dominated by a 'Big Top' circus tent), my guess is that the harlequin-style party girls and all the clownish stuff is what this planet imagines Belmod wants out of his visit, so that he doesn't blow up the planet (like the Bug-men and Beerus's multi-course meal, in 超 #1). In fairness, the room design is pretty much a duplicate of Belmod's planet (the floor is a bit different, and the table with the delicacies is also unique to this scene), so they do a good job.

This scene contains a translation mistake. In the original, Vermoud points out that the harlequin trio are natives of a planet he was set to destroy anyway; not that they’re currently on a planet he’s set to destroy.

The error becomes especially glaring when we see Vermoud and co. back at that setting (his planet) after the tournament announcement.

Also, yes, his line about Toppo just happening to have been there when he was summoned to the Grand Priest’s is a bit odd, in light of what he was doing. Maybe Toppo was off studying somewhere else at Vermoud’s while Vermoud himself slacked off.

Vegeta and Goku are now official equals, as Vegeta has spent months training, Goku hasn't, and they can both use the Completed power of SSjB with facility, and this strength puts them on the level of other Gods of Destruction (who are, implicitly, much weaker than Beerus).

Not to get too into the weeds here, but, at least in Japanese, Beerus says they’d probably be fit to be God of Destruction candidates In other universes—the first of whom we meet soon afterward in Toppo. Is the English version different?

Presumably Beerus is also just being too proud to admit that they could make reasonable candidates in his own universe too, given how many times Whis cheekily offers them the role.

[Magnificent Ponta]

This scene contains a translation mistake. In the original, Vermoud points out that the harlequin trio are natives of a planet he was set to destroy anyway; not that they’re currently on a planet he’s set to destroy.

The error becomes especially glaring when we see Vermoud and co. back at that setting (his planet) after the tournament announcement.

Ah, that's good to know - thanks for that extra bit of info. So Belmod just spruced up his own pad for the night. In fairness, that's what I'd do if I had some harlequin floozies around for an overnight stay - break out the dainties and the good utensils, pack away my Jenga and my horse skull(?) - you know, the basics.

Not to get too into the weeds here, but, at least in Japanese, Beerus says they’d probably be fit to be God of Destruction candidates In other universes—the first of whom we meet soon afterward in Toppo. Is the English version different?

No, the English version says 'candidate' too - I'm eliding this datum somewhat with Iwne's later statement that Goku's fight with Toppo is already on the level of "us Gods", so I figure people like Goku, Vegeta, and Toppo are somewhere in a fairly broad spectrum of power.

I wondered about this, Zamasu fuses first and there's a little delay before Vegito is formed, it'd be more logical from a powerscaling perspective if Veggetto was the one who held out the lions share of it. Does it say how long Vegetto was fused for.

Gowas mentions that if Goku could stand against fused Zamas for an hour, they'd still have hope; then the fusion happens, and when they split again, Trunks asks how much time is left, and Shin says around 20 minutes - so Vegetto was around for near enough 40 minutes - and in SSjB for the whole time without any obvious power-loss issues, I might add.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here? Your version doesn't have the funny page showing he did go after Monaka after all and didn't care about the nipples as first assumed? It's chapter 18 if you were wondering.

Ah, no, it is indeed in my copy; that's not what I mean - I'm just referring to the fact that interstitials often happen to have some correspondence to what's actually happened in the main story (see: Goku molesting the Galactic King in the chapter 13 interstitial, which is again referred to in Chapter 43, or Botamo consoling Magetta in the Chapter 11 interstitial, which reproduces a scene in the chapter itself). Cipher, for instance, often likes to say that the interstitials are 'canon'. However, I can't see any evidence of 'Monaka Black' in any of the crowd shots to correspond to the interstitial in question - obviously because it's just a gag, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Fun fact this is why the main marvel earth was christened 616 in an old captain Britain issue, "because it'd be hard to believe our universe just so happens to be number 1".

Not to stray too far from the topic, but I thought the Marvel Universe got its number from the address of the Marvel Offices? Or is that the 'in-universe' explanation for the designation?

Also I don't know if anyone's pointed this out before, but I find it interesting that Goku has to repeatedly learn "there's always someone above you" to stay humble, and he's humble enough to take the lesson each time, Zamas is like a foil to this, he's declared irrevocably he's the greatest god to ever live so he's taught the lesson finally and lethally that that is not the case.

I haven't seen anyone else say this, so you can claim this 'take' as freshly minted by yourself - and I think it's a really good one; kudos and thanks for the insight. Definitely filing this one away mentally.

Sick literary reference with the Zamasu face stomp thing.

Thanks; I worked hard on wedging it in there somewhere.

See I don't think that's the case, as long as they don't go back to before the present in the main timeline they wouldn't split, furthermore they've kinda clarified that it's not any time travel that splits timelines, it's specifically making a big enough paradox.

I think that the way they phrase it, their intention isn't simply to come back to where Goku and Vegeta are and kill them there (though they will do that to start with), but also to go back to an earlier point in every timeline and wipe out the mortals. This would create a proliferation of new branches in the various timelines, wouldn't it? That's what I inferred from the statement that they could execute the Zero Mortal Project "even in the past", anyway.